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#11
11-16-2006, 06:40 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
I dabbled with the NL on Stars the other day. Theoretically, the game has the same problem as the HPL Badugi on Tribeca -- it's a race to see who can get pat first. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this a problem? How does this make the game bad? Less action? What's another style of play, more bluffing? [ QUOTE ] However, since the players don't play correctly, the game is profitable anyhow for now. [/ QUOTE ] How would you characterize the most common mistakes the average player is making? Thanks, /mc 
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#12
11-16-2006, 09:07 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I dabbled with the NL on Stars the other day. Theoretically, the game has the same problem as the HPL Badugi on Tribeca -- it's a race to see who can get pat first. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this a problem? [/ QUOTE ] It's a problem because by and large players make correct folds and there's no later-street play. Obviously the Stars games are still soft enough that that hasn't come up yet, but it almost certainly will. TD in the end will be better than Badugi in this aspect because you never have odds to draw against any pat hand in half-pot Badugi. If people pat extremely rough to get pat early in TD, you can still draw against them sometimes. Mostly this will make it degenerate more slowly rather than stopping it, though.
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#13
11-16-2006, 09:17 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I dabbled with the NL on Stars the other day. Theoretically, the game has the same problem as the HPL Badugi on Tribeca -- it's a race to see who can get pat first. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this a problem? [/ QUOTE ] It's a problem because by and large players make correct folds and there's no later-street play. Obviously the Stars games are still soft enough that that hasn't come up yet, but it almost certainly will. TD in the end will be better than Badugi in this aspect because you never have odds to draw against any pat hand in half-pot Badugi. If people pat extremely rough to get pat early in TD, you can still draw against them sometimes. Mostly this will make it degenerate more slowly rather than stopping it, though. [/ QUOTE ] I couldn't agree more. For anyone who would like to read debates on the same topic back when Badugi was launched at Doyles Room check the archives, there is some interesting opinions and informed POVs. I didn't agree with some of them at all, but I agree 100% with 2461Badugi this time for sure. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#14
11-16-2006, 09:29 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
I think the angriest I've ever been at poker players was when we had a five-handed 5/10 limit Badugi game actually going in August, and some guy came in and broke it to start a half-pot game. Everybody left muttering about how in limit you couldn't bet enough to make people fold. I wasn't even stuck; hopefully I wouldn't have been any madder if I was, but who knows.
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#15
11-16-2006, 09:54 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I dabbled with the NL on Stars the other day. Theoretically, the game has the same problem as the HPL Badugi on Tribeca -- it's a race to see who can get pat first. [/ QUOTE ] Why is this a problem? [/ QUOTE ] It's a problem because by and large players make correct folds and there's no later-street play. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, so you guys are saying that, in general, average NL TD players tend to play more correctly than average limit TD players. So, I understand TD is considered high variance. Is there consensus about the size of the edge between expert and average TD player relative to, say, Hold'em? /mc
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#16
11-16-2006, 09:59 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so you guys are saying that, in general, average NL TD players tend to play more correctly than average limit TD players. [/ QUOTE ] Not at the moment, but NL TD is brand new. I anticipate this becoming true, but it's always possible something strange could happen to make me wrong. Average and semi-poor half-pot Badugi players do play much more correctly than average and semi-poor limit Badugi players, though. [ QUOTE ] So, I understand TD is considered high variance. Is there consensus about the size of the edge between expert and average TD player relative to, say, Hold'em? [/ QUOTE ] I'm content with TT's theory being the standard, but I'll let him post it.
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#17
11-16-2006, 11:09 PM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
I disagree with badugi because he is ignoring implied odds. Action goes like this: you have 2347 and position and your opponent is pat before the 1st draw but you suspect he's rough. He bets, you call and brick on the 1st draw. He pots it again, leaving about an additional PSB behind. You're only getting 2-1 direct odds, so you don't have the odds to draw.
However, since you drew a card, the correct play for him is to push after the 2nd draw. This leaves you with 5-1 implied odds, making it close if you count an 8 as an out. Add deeper stacks (which he probably won't get away from if you hit) and its a clear call. Remember also that you have the option to bluff after the 3rd draw if you miss.
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#18
11-17-2006, 09:43 AM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with badugi because he is ignoring implied odds. Action goes like this: you have 2347 and position and your opponent is pat before the 1st draw but you suspect he's rough. He bets, you call and brick on the 1st draw. He pots it again, leaving about an additional PSB behind. You're only getting 2-1 direct odds, so you don't have the odds to draw. However, since you drew a card, the correct play for him is to push after the 2nd draw. This leaves you with 5-1 implied odds, making it close if you count an 8 as an out. Add deeper stacks (which he probably won't get away from if you hit) and its a clear call. Remember also that you have the option to bluff after the 3rd draw if you miss. [/ QUOTE ] Show us how your getting 5:1 implied odds if he pushes, and then you still have the opportunity to bluff on the river? I think your post has some errors, its as if you mixed limit and NL thoughts into the same response. Please explain further. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#19
11-17-2006, 09:45 AM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so you guys are saying that, in general, average NL TD players tend to play more correctly than average limit TD players. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I'd say the opposite, a skilled player must therefore fold far too many pots in comparison to Hold'em because he is not getting the correct odds to call. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#20
11-17-2006, 09:46 AM
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Re: The strategy diference between NL & LIMIT 2-7 TD
[ QUOTE ]
I'm content with TT's theory being the standard, but I'll let him post it. [/ QUOTE ] Not sure what your talking about, PM me to refresh my memory? I'm running off to work so I dont have the time to think about it [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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