"Accidentally" flopping a hand from the blinds

[Waingro]

I think leading the flop in both cases are fine, there are hands that might pay you off. But on the turn, some of those hands just improved. So cf is good. If the turn bricks, why not fire another bet. Check river and call something reasonable.

If you think you are getting floated a lot and you don´t know what to do on the turn, don´t lead the flop. Cc, cr or cf the flop depending on how it feels. If someone bets close to pot = fold.

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
I know it sounds stupid, but it has bothered me for a long time (and I really didnt wanna open a thread for this).

Do you ever/always/sometimes complete with Axo ? (x being a wheelcard) ?

[/ QUOTE ]

If its folded to me on the button then pretty much always, otherwise not often.

[robinmbuk]

To be honest the key to these situations is not to complete the small blind with a hand that your going to find really hard to play after the flop. You might get into the hand cheaply from the SB, but if you lose money after the flop, what's the benefit in that? If you watch IStrongs great NL 25/50/100 videos he recommends playing tight in the blinds because of your weak position throughout the hand, although he may have meant this when talking about calling a raise from the blinds.

[Marshall28]

robin is absolutely right ... i was about to say that if no one else did.

otherwise .. these situations should come up a lot more often from THE BB. in those situations both flops are alright to bet at and both turns should be bet/fold.

the bet in those cases is a blocking bet ... its because i wouldnt want a scare card to drop and get bluffed off the best hand ... however if i encounter any resistance at all i am check folding river (if im not improved)

these cases you brought up are not difficult ones, there are actually much more difficult situations to deal with ...

for example .. you have 104 on BB ...no raise to you and it gets checked ... flop comes 1097 ... this is a flop you SHOULDNT bet at because of the high possibility that someone else has a better hand ... but of course if you have A4 and the flop is A82 ... thats a different story. pretty much if there are possible straights on the flop ... then the chance that they have 2pr/straight is higher and you shouldnt bet.

[hra146]

... and were looking for?...

3suited boards?
twopair?
wheel?

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]
... and were looking for?...

3suited boards?
twopair?
wheel?

[/ QUOTE ]
Trip X

With A6o for example, you will make
Aces & Sixes on the flop 2.02% of the time
Trip Sixes with Ace kicker .68% of the time
FH .09% and four of a kind .01% so total the hand is ~2.8% likely to make a strong hand. Note, I ignored Trips with the Ace because you are either getting nothing or stacked generally when you have AX on an AAY flop if your kicker is weak. So your odds are ~34:1 to hit a hand worth continueing. Since your implied odds are doubled if you are merely completeing a SB that is half the BB, your opponent only needs to have 17BB to have a large enough stack that "if you can stack him" you can make the AXo completion profitable. It is unlikely you will be in a game where as the SB you are faced with opponents that have less than 17BB, so the question is can you get that from the opponents. Unless it is heads up pre-flop I won't bet TPWK on the flop which means I got a free ride in the BB because I would raise Ax if folded to me in the SB. Ok, I might, but it is opponent specific and my default play against unknowns would be to check and maybe call a min-bet with TPWK if I am closing the action on the flop.

Edit: When X 2-5, the odds don't change much, you get a straight .33% of the flops, so it only makes the hands worth continuing odds move to 32:1.

[hra146]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... and were looking for?...

3suited boards?
twopair?
wheel?

[/ QUOTE ]
Trip X

With A6o for example, you will make
Aces & Sixes on the flop 2.02% of the time
Trip Sixes with Ace kicker .68% of the time
FH .09% and four of a kind .01% so total the hand is ~2.8% likely to make a strong hand. Note, I ignored Trips with the Ace because you are either getting nothing or stacked generally when you have AX on an AAY flop if your kicker is weak. So your odds are ~34:1 to hit a hand worth continueing. Since your implied odds are doubled if you are merely completeing a SB that is half the BB, your opponent only needs to have 17BB to have a large enough stack that "if you can stack him" you can make the AXo completion profitable. It is unlikely you will be in a game where as the SB you are faced with opponents that have less than 17BB, so the question is can you get that from the opponents. Unless it is heads up pre-flop I won't bet TPWK on the flop which means I got a free ride in the BB because I would raise Ax if folded to me in the SB. Ok, I might, but it is opponent specific and my default play against unknowns would be to check and maybe call a min-bet with TPWK if I am closing the action on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


sounds good. btw, i didnt question the play, i just really wanted to know. thx

[Marshall28]

vern only problem is you arent likely to hardly ever get good enough implied odds in an unraised pot.

otherwise ... are you sure of these numbers? i had always thought it was 48-1 to improve to 2 pr or better on the flop ... im sure i could be wrong, but just curious where u got the information from?

[Vern]

I got the numbers from a poker calculator, 48:1 is the odds to flop two pair with no pair on board.

Chance to hit one of your cards on the first card 6/50
Chance to hit the other card 3/49
Chance you don't make a full house on the third card 44/48
There are three ways for this to happen, so the chance of hitting two pair is:
3*(6*3*44)/(50*49*48) = 0.0202 or 2.02% or 48:1 to hit two pair no pair on board.

I added FH, Trips for the X card & four of a kind chances as well to get to 2.8% which makes it ~34:1

[robinmbuk]

Sometimes if you check and there is a player in late position who often bets when it's checked to him on the flop, it's fun to c/r (no min raises, make it ~ pot size), as long as no one else has called his bet before it comes back to you.