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#11
11-13-2006, 07:19 PM
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Re: Are we morons or experts?
Well, when he raised, I initially thought it's an obvious fold. But then I thought that my river bet too obviously says, "I missed my draw. Here's a desperation bluff." (Won't go into why it's obvious, unless anyone cares.)
But then I thought that since he must be thinking the same thing, a bluff-raise is obviously the correct move on his part. What's funny is, if he just called, there'd be no doubt I'd have a loser. But his raise actually gave me hope that my K-high may be good, that he called the turn with a draw (an 8 or 9 in his hand). So I called thinking there may be 40% chance or so my hand is good. He showed J8 and my K high won. Which led to the title of my post: did we both played this river like morons or experts? 
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#12
11-13-2006, 09:17 PM
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Re: Are we morons or experts?
[ QUOTE ]
Well, when he raised, I initially thought it's an obvious fold. But then I thought that my river bet too obviously says, "I missed my draw. Here's a desperation bluff." (Won't go into why it's obvious, unless anyone cares.) But then I thought that since he must be thinking the same thing, a bluff-raise is obviously the correct move on his part. What's funny is, if he just called, there'd be no doubt I'd have a loser. But his raise actually gave me hope that my K-high may be good, that he called the turn with a draw (an 8 or 9 in his hand). So I called thinking there may be 40% chance or so my hand is good. He showed J8 and my K high won. Which led to the title of my post: did we both played this river like morons or experts? [/ QUOTE ] I think you both played it kinda bad. People call down with any ace all the time. People will usually raise this ace on the river. I think you just hurt your odds by betting the river and calling a raise, unless you had a read that he had a missed draw and WOULD raise with it. A lot needs to go right for you to feel good putting in two bets on this river. From his perspective, I guess it's fine, but only great players bet-fold pairs on this river and in high stakes games people almost always show down any pair(or K high, haha). I think in expert land this hand goes check-call and you win. James
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#13
11-14-2006, 01:35 PM
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Re: Are we morons or experts?
I agreed that the hand as a whole was played kinda badly by us both. A better line for him would have been to raise the turn and bet the river.
I'm not sure that I had a better line tho. If I check the river, he's also checking, because my hand looks now too much like a small pair and is afraid of the A or looking to induce a bluff. (I'd still win, but less) My river bet was probably a mistake, since he ain't folding anything that can beat me (except maybe for a bigger K) and that was really the purpose of my bet. (Wish I could say that I bet with the intent of inducing a bluff raise, but that wasn't the case.) But once I made that river bet, I thought he made a good read and a good raise, and I thought I made a good logical assessment of the situation and acted accordingly, as opposed to automatically folding or calling. (Result is the same as just auto-calling, but I really did think it thru for about 3 seconds.)
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