Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[punter11235]

I fold.
I check the flop almost always, imo betting is spewing. I know I dont find many followers but its how I see those situations.
EDIT : If I bet the flop I for sure check the turn.

[Requin]

Nicely played now call. Flop bet is good.

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
elaborate plz

[/ QUOTE ]

Same idea as checking the turn for "pot control". I think I win more by checking now because I will lose less to monsters and win more against bluffs. Vs most hands I will win 2bets anyway (as they wouldnt pay off 3 and will pay off 2 on the turn and river anyway).
I also avoid being bluff out which is qutie important imo.

Betting is only better (imo) vs very straightforward weak tight Villains. If they bluff sometimes however you have 2 choices imo : go to the felt unless 4th flush card falls or to play for pot control. I choose the latter but I can imagine I am wrong here but I strongly believe I am not.
I think betting (once or twice) and giving up sucks hard because if I add my top pair hands to that together with bluffs I am just to easy target for random aggression.

Villain has just too much ammo here. about 18 hands that crush me now (comparing to 6 on normal Qxx flops) and many more which are coinflipping. If he knows what hes doing I will be in very tough spot playing 3more streets with that hand.

This hand also shows one important thing. Slowplaying on 2/3 tone boards is very good play vs most 2p2'ers. Because they go out of their way to protect their hand or firing 2barrels as "Villain would raise that flop with monsters if hes any good".

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
Nicely played now call. Flop bet is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think playing in such a way demands very high confidence in your ability to read how he would play his strong hands. I dont think you can have that confidence vs any but the worst players.

[Requin]

Ahhhhh I don't really want to get into it...you're giving up a fair amount of equity to a random heart, if villain has a Q he isn't c/fing the flop, a flop c-bet looks weak all on its own whereas a flop check/turn call looks like a made hand (the Ah would have bet flop).

[ibuckyourfutt]

i bet flop, i check behind turn; as played, i probably fold... dont many non 2p2ers play this way with a flopped set or 2p? this is dep on ur read but do u really expect a bluff or just tp here even 1/3 the time? donks usually dont take an hour to unveil themselves

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahhhhh I don't really want to get into it...you're giving up a fair amount of equity to a random heart, if villain has a Q he isn't c/fing the flop, a flop c-bet looks weak all on its own whereas a flop check/turn call looks like a made hand (the Ah would have bet flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I realize I give up some equity vs random hearts. I also realize it looks like transparent way to play but anyway I did some thinking about it and I think it has merits. I thought OP may be interested in that alternative approach [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Big_Jim]

I check the flop a lot, too.

Our hand really isn't that good, and the pot is small. If anybody wants to try to play a big pot with us, on the flop, our hand is essentially worthless, since we are almost always in a BA/WB spot, and only pretty bad players are paying us off for more than a street with a hand that we beat soundly, unless our image is psycho.

How crazy I get with this hand on future streets depends a lot on villian.

[Nicok7]

Very interesting!
I very rarely check these flops and find I isolate against better hands a lot
;( LAG people drawing can take it away from you as well making every decision difficult (this hand is a perfect example)

Checking keeps the pot small and will chase the draws on the turn, making a tricky hand easier to play all along, I can see how that makes up for the equity loss of giving a free card.

Will start experimenting both lines, thanks punter and BigJim for the tip!