Card Runners - articles and forum

[Taylor Caby]

[ QUOTE ]
Cardrunner hands include such gems as this one. Those guys think they're better than they are. Pretty much, it was a waste of money to sign up:

Blinds 0.5/1 on PP
4 handed, hero in sb.

CO calls $1 Button calls $1, Hero calls $1 with 9h9d BBchecks
Pot is $3.80

Flop comes:
TsTh4d
(comment: that's a pretty good flop)
Hero Bets $2.25, BB folds, CO folds, button calls

Turn 4c
(comment: 4 is a bad turn card, there is basically nothing I beat now)
Hero Checks, Button bets $8, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This topic has been discussed in depth before on 2+2. The general consensus is that it is impossible to always play your best, mistake free poker (seriously, try it sometime. record your sessions and watch them and you will laugh at some of the plays you make -- that's just poker).

I'm clearly biased as I am a co-owner of this site, but I think you are mistaken. There are thousands of satisfied members, many 2+2ers, that have enjoyed their time as CR members.

Besides that one example, which has been discussed in depth here, what else didn't you like about the videos? I can count on one hand the amount of poeple who have told me they haven't learned anything from watching our videos, so I would be curious as to what you think makes a subscription worthless.

Best,
tc

[george w]

i wish they'd put some effort into making the site better. for example, i can't stream the videos from firefox so i have to open up i.e. every time. i almost didn't even sign up because the registration process is so wonky. looks like an amateur made the site.

also, it's hard to tell the bet sizes sometimes. gp will say how much he's betting and how big the pot is, but others don't.

other than a couple small things i'm very satisfied with being a member.

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cardrunner hands include such gems as this one. Those guys think they're better than they are. Pretty much, it was a waste of money to sign up:

Blinds 0.5/1 on PP
4 handed, hero in sb.

CO calls $1 Button calls $1, Hero calls $1 with 9h9d BBchecks
Pot is $3.80

Flop comes:
TsTh4d
(comment: that's a pretty good flop)
Hero Bets $2.25, BB folds, CO folds, button calls

Turn 4c
(comment: 4 is a bad turn card, there is basically nothing I beat now)
Hero Checks, Button bets $8, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This topic has been discussed in depth before on 2+2. The general consensus is that it is impossible to always play your best, mistake free poker (seriously, try it sometime. record your sessions and watch them and you will laugh at some of the plays you make -- that's just poker).

I'm clearly biased as I am a co-owner of this site, but I think you are mistaken. There are thousands of satisfied members, many 2+2ers, that have enjoyed their time as CR members.

Besides that one example, which has been discussed in depth here, what else didn't you like about the videos? I can count on one hand the amount of poeple who have told me they haven't learned anything from watching our videos, so I would be curious as to what you think makes a subscription worthless.

Best,
tc

[/ QUOTE ]

I am unbiased as I am not a co-owner of the site. The GP video's are excellent. One hole in our 2p2 hand posting method of learning is that we are constantly viewing hands in a vacuum with out viewing the flow of the game surrounding the individual hand. The cardrunner video's fill that hole. If the videos are less then perfect, then good, examine the videos, look for mistakes and discuss them. That should be a great educating tool in of itself.

Also, does anyone know how to upgrade a from the cheapo membership to the balla one?

[Rhett]

I signed up for the full membership which was a $40 setup fee + $20 / month, and I watched a lot of the movies. This thread is reminding me to cancel my membership, because I was not satisfied with the content of the video. Is there any chance I can get a refund, co-owner? Any satisfaction guarantee?

If these guys actually have "thousands" of members (which I don't doubt), that means the site is making roughly half a million dollars a year (give or take a few hundred thousand). This is, of course, not counting the internal rakeback affiliate network they have setup. This leads me to believe that the site owners and friends of the owners have "incentive" to promote the site.

My main beef with the videos is that they don't show you realistic ways that the players are making real money. They show things like "Green Plastic" playing a single table $100 HU sng on UltimateBet. What could his earn rate possibly be there? $10 an hour? In the "Green Plastic" cashgame videos, he makes comments like "it's good that I'm back to even this session" (sample size: ~30 hands). I can't understand why everyone raves about GreenPlastic.

Now, the site-owner and biased friends are going to argue that these videos are contrived for instructional purposes. But the bottom line is that I didn't see any videos that showed me a realistic session of how top players optimize their maximum expected hourly earn rate.

[cassette]

It's a pretty good site. All of the videos should be at least four tables though. There just isn't enough going on single tabling. Cardrunners has pure volume of videos where stoxpoker.com has higher quality videos and commentary, imo. Having said that, I am a member of both services and feel they are both definitly worth the money for beginner/intermediate players.

[FieryJustice]

I think my biggest complaint about the site right now is that I am unsure what is being taught is actually +ev. I know from the sng videos, that the people making them dont really have a clue...That got me to thinking, since I dont really know anything about cash games, are the cash game videos of equally poor quality? I dont know, as I dont know what is actually good or bad. I would hate to learn something wrong. That is all.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my biggest complaint about the site right now is that I am unsure what is being taught is actually +ev. I know from the sng videos, that the people making them dont really have a clue...That got me to thinking, since I dont really know anything about cash games, are the cash game videos of equally poor quality? I dont know, as I dont know what is actually good or bad. I would hate to learn something wrong. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

The cash game videos have turned me into a winning player. I love this site.

[PerDoom]

[ QUOTE ]
I signed up for the full membership which was a $40 setup fee + $20 / month, and I watched a lot of the movies. This thread is reminding me to cancel my membership, because I was not satisfied with the content of the video. Is there any chance I can get a refund, co-owner? Any satisfaction guarantee?

If these guys actually have "thousands" of members (which I don't doubt), that means the site is making roughly half a million dollars a year (give or take a few hundred thousand). This is, of course, not counting the internal rakeback affiliate network they have setup. This leads me to believe that the site owners and friends of the owners have "incentive" to promote the site.

My main beef with the videos is that they don't show you realistic ways that the players are making real money. They show things like "Green Plastic" playing a single table $100 HU sng on UltimateBet. What could his earn rate possibly be there? $10 an hour? In the "Green Plastic" cashgame videos, he makes comments like "it's good that I'm back to even this session" (sample size: ~30 hands). I can't understand why everyone raves about GreenPlastic.

Now, the site-owner and biased friends are going to argue that these videos are contrived for instructional purposes. But the bottom line is that I didn't see any videos that showed me a realistic session of how top players optimize their maximum expected hourly earn rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying the site owners, who make a profit from providing videos, are trying to promote their site? Shocking! Next thing you know, there will be forums created by a book publishing company that will put advertising on their site. I know, it is a shocking concept to consider, but I think it is happening.

[Rhett]

I said many things in my previous reply. I even spaced out the paragraphs to emphasize the groupings of my main thoughts. The most important idea was that:

Cardrunners videos do not show you examples of good players making a lot of $EV.

However, I will bold a section pertinent to your rebuttal that you seem to have glossed over. If these people want to advertise on 2+2, they should buy a banner advert instead of unleashing their affiliate program on the forum or whatever else their actually marking plan is.

I am completely convinced that many of the intelligent-sounding posters that promote this site must be biased, because in reality, the videos are just not that good, and neither is the forum or the rakeback program, or anything else about that site.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I signed up for the full membership which was a $40 setup fee + $20 / month, and I watched a lot of the movies. This thread is reminding me to cancel my membership, because I was not satisfied with the content of the video. Is there any chance I can get a refund, co-owner? Any satisfaction guarantee?

If these guys actually have "thousands" of members (which I don't doubt), that means the site is making roughly half a million dollars a year (give or take a few hundred thousand). This is, of course, not counting the internal rakeback affiliate network they have setup. This leads me to believe that the site owners and friends of the owners have "incentive" to promote the site.

My main beef with the videos is that they don't show you realistic ways that the players are making real money. They show things like "Green Plastic" playing a single table $100 HU sng on UltimateBet. What could his earn rate possibly be there? $10 an hour? In the "Green Plastic" cashgame videos, he makes comments like "it's good that I'm back to even this session" (sample size: ~30 hands). I can't understand why everyone raves about GreenPlastic.

Now, the site-owner and biased friends are going to argue that these videos are contrived for instructional purposes. But the bottom line is that I didn't see any videos that showed me a realistic session of how top players optimize their maximum expected hourly earn rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying the site owners, who make a profit from providing videos, are trying to promote their site? Shocking! Next thing you know, there will be forums created by a book publishing company that will put advertising on their site. I know, it is a shocking concept to consider, but I think it is happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

[AggieAce]

For a minimal fee, if I can take JUST ONE THING from a NL cash game video, I can turn that into thousands. Cardrunners and Taylor have made me concentrate more on my game, analyze my own decision making process, and improved my $/100 greatly.

Sorry Cardrunners didn't work for you Rhett, but you seem to be one of the few. Maybe it's not the site's fault...