thoughts on the switch from party to stars so far

[BvlyHls90210]

I've played a similar volume at similar stakes and I feel the exact same way as you.

[LesJ]

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Although not playing the same stakes ($60s here) I have been having a lot of trouble adjusting.

I think the problem is mainly that at party you knew it was variance and now with the new structure you arent exactly sure.

I don't know if that makes sense but its probably 99% still variance.

Scrilla

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So how many of us are suffering from variance right now??? Seems like quite a few to simply be variance. I am at much lower levels (16s and 27s), but I haven't had a solid winning day since I left party. Thanks to some good coaching, I had been a solid, winning player there. . .especially over the last 2-3 months (3K or so SNGs).

While I freely admit that I am struggling, I am not convinced it is due to tougher players. That MAY be a factor, but I saw my share of 2+2 regulars at the
22 and 33 speeds at Party. I am hoping that I still need to make the proper adjustments and that this troubled time is also a function of variance.

I do know at times over the last week I have really stuggled mentally with the game.
Right now, to sooth my troubled SNG soul, I am pwning some cash games!

Les

[curtains]

cmon guys, just move to the 1k's and get your easy 10% ROI [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[LesJ]

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cmon guys, just move to the 1k's and get your easy 10% ROI [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Two questions:

1) Will they respect my raises?

2) Are you bankrolling me?

Thanks sincerely,

Les

[DF_Newbie]

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cmon guys, just move to the 1k's and get your easy 10% ROI [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

I don't like the Stars setup but only because it takes too damn long. Getting rid of at least one early level would really help but whatever. On the surface it looked like the antes would be a pain in the ass but it now looks like they will make 5+ man play a lot easier (to push bot at least). That said I wouldn't really be shocked if a lot of the top Party players are doing poorly. There is a huge difference between the 100/200 level and the 100/200/25 level and it will take some time to adjust. But at this point it looks like you have to push ~20% more and call 30-60% more (w/ 7 players) so there might be merit to the "they push and call with anything" strategy that the Stars regs are taking. Luckily bubble/ITM play will remain basically unchanged.

[LesJ]

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There is a huge difference between the 100/200 level and the 100/200/25 level and it will take some time to adjust.

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I think I have read this comment maybe FIVES TIMES in the last week, but I am still struggling for its meaning. Would you be giving away to much to enlighten me just a little here. I promise I am not as dumb as I sound, but to this PP Refugee, it would seem that you would push/fold roughly the same group of hands in the same situations at BOTH of these blind levels.

Thanks,

Les

[IceMuncher]

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There is a huge difference between the 100/200 level and the 100/200/25 level and it will take some time to adjust.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have read this comment maybe FIVES TIMES in the last week, but I am still struggling for its meaning. Would you be giving away to much to enlighten me just a little here. I promise I am not as dumb as I sound, but to this PP Refugee, it would seem that you would push/fold roughly the same group of hands in the same situations at BOTH of these blind levels.

Thanks,

Les

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There's dead money in the pot, usually an extra 50% or so. With 6 players left (more or less typical), the pot is $450 instead of $300. Also, you're getting ante'd off at the same time, so if you're playing tight it can sneak up on you if your not used to it. For now, I think of it as having 150-300 blinds, but with more FE.

[Shillx]

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There is a huge difference between the 100/200 level and the 100/200/25 level and it will take some time to adjust.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have read this comment maybe FIVES TIMES in the last week, but I am still struggling for its meaning. Would you be giving away to much to enlighten me just a little here. I promise I am not as dumb as I sound, but to this PP Refugee, it would seem that you would push/fold roughly the same group of hands in the same situations at BOTH of these blind levels.

Thanks,

Les

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There's dead money in the pot, usually an extra 50% or so. With 6 players left (more or less typical), the pot is $450 instead of $300. Also, you're getting ante'd off at the same time, so if you're playing tight it can sneak up on you if your not used to it. For now, I think of it as having 150-300 blinds, but with more FE.

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Right but it makes for even better pushing conditions. If you can get the 100/200/25 play down you will have a much bigger edge then a typical push/fold'er. Before when the limits went from 1/2 to 1.5/3 the optimal calling % almost doubled (it varied but in general). Now there is the same amount of money in the middle but the pot odds for the blinds dictate that they only call say 50% more often. I mean just to give you an example, SNGPT says to push 50% of the time (I don't suggest this) from the button w/ 5 12bb even stacked players in the game. And 35% of these pushes have an EV of +0.2% or more. There was no common pre-bubble situation at Party where you should have shoved over 50% of the time outside of the SB.

If you can make it to that level where there are > 4 people left in the game you have an opportunity to pick up a ton of EV. Especially if you are playing against "good" players who don't understand the changes. Obviously it doesn't matter much against morons who will spite call but the typical push about right/call too tight are going to have no chance against you.

There is also another key change when it gets to 200/400/25. It would probably be better to goto an M-style system but it is a pain in the ass to figure out M's on the fly.

[LesJ]

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For now, I think of it as having 150-300 blinds, but with more FE.


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I played a small set just now, and treating that level in this context seemed to help. Thanks.

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Right but it makes for even better pushing conditions. If you can get the 100/200/25 play down you will have a much bigger edge then a typical push/fold'er. Before when the limits went from 1/2 to 1.5/3 the optimal calling % almost doubled (it varied but in general). Now there is the same amount of money in the middle but the pot odds for the blinds dictate that they only call say 50% more often.

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Quite honestly (and I am revealing my lack of talent and thought process here), around mid-week I started realizing that I was getting pushed into much more at the 100/200/25 level. I kept on thinking that the agressive players were making a mistake pushing with over 10bbs and not in the right table position, etc. I guess I was just so familiar with the PP structure, that this level of thinking was just too "outside-the-box" to fathom.

I am looking forward to playing tomorrow with some of these thoughts in mind.

Thanks to both of you, Shillx and IceMuncher!

Les