Why do i keep doing it? Satellite guys help me out.

[Beachman42]

[ QUOTE ]

beach,

My ep raise was targeted at the mid sized bb who happened to be to my immediate right. i guess i overvalued his stack size and undervalued my hand/table position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you just confirmed my point. By *only* focusing on the BB on your immediate right, you "forgot" about the other 7 players in the hand. KJ is a REALLY bad hand if you happen to get called.

[seke2]

You should def add on, even in this situation.

Pushing KJ from EP in this situation is also unquestionably retarded. Beach explained it pretty well.

[degenrat]

yeah i suck. my endgame in the sat's seems quite weak. thankfully i get punished EVRY SINGLE TIME FOR IT. hopefully i'll keep improving. i seem to put myself in a good position, so once i learn proper late game strategy i think i'll make a couple of bucks.


With the Add on, i searched for the anthology and found nothing.

I am havign a hard time seeing the value in this spot. please point me in the right direction for info or og into detail if possible.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i suck. my endgame in the sat's seems quite weak. thankfully i get punished EVRY SINGLE TIME FOR IT. hopefully i'll keep improving. i seem to put myself in a good position, so once i learn proper late game strategy i think i'll make a couple of bucks.


With the Add on, i searched for the anthology and found nothing.

I am havign a hard time seeing the value in this spot. please point me in the right direction for info or og into detail if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

To give a simple example: you have 14k before the break and I have 10k. I add-on and you don't. I now threaten you. All the short stacks that have added on now threaten you more.

It is unquestionably easier to play tournament poker with a big stack - the bigger the stack, the easier it is.

Lastly, tournament chip leader sits down in front. You flop a set, he flops a smaller set. The 2k you added now becomes 4k.

One more thing, you are table chip leader, without the addon. It's great. One villain doubles up. You're not table chip leader anymore. It's not so great.

And another thing, you are table chip leader. It's great. You get moved to a table that's been manic and there are four larger stacks. You lose a pot. There are eight larger stacks.

If you don't have a roll to take the add-on, don't play a rebuy. It is in all ways, shapes and forms +EV to take all the chips available when they are offered to you.

[kyleparks]

Here are the things you did wrong and reasons why :

Add on - Always buy. Everyone else is doing it! why arnt you? it makes more sence to buy the add on to me if you are ahead rather than behind because you actually have a chance at winning this thing!!!

Pushing with KJ - Only person who is calling you has you beat, or PP / coinflip. I used to make this same mistake, this isnt a bad move on the button with no limpers vs SS, but you are risking your Tourney life on a mediocre hand at best. i see more people bust with KJ than any other hand.

so i think the main thing you need to remember is POSITION. Dont be desperate. everyone else is in the same boat with you... just wait for a premium hand and push, or wait until no one comes in and push the button with garbage.

oh, and one more thing, DONT LIMP. If you are playing a hand make sure you have decent position and always raise.

hope this was helpful.

kyle

[kleath]

Im not sure if not adding on or that EP push was worse, Im going to say PROBABLY the push but its close. One flaw you make is assuming you'll only get called by 4 hands, just because thats what SHOULD happen doesnt mean thats what WILL happen, what about the shortstack who needs to double up, he's folding AQ here when he's probably a donk? Big stack is going to fold Tens here when he's also probably a donk? Sats are so soft primarily because there calling ranges are way too loose, this is why adanthar can buy Africa with $W. you know what you should play from EP here? KK+, MAAAYBE QQ+.

[MAF]

[ QUOTE ]
With 4k/8k blinds and a 56k stack you can almost definitely fold into a seat here. Don't take risks like this, especially with a mediocre hand like KJo into a full table from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a key point here. You will still qualify even if your stack is $1 after the 16th player has busted. There is absolutely no reason to play KJo from any position here. You have plenty of time to let others bust themselves. If you are getting panicky, wait for a better hand for this move.

[smoore]

+1 for always buy the addon. I can't do the math but the explanations I read make a lot of sense.

+1 for WTF? KJo? This is the point in the satellite where you want to be turn-coal-into-diamonds tight. Steal from LP, with AT LEAST an ace. I used to steal with bare aces but have given it up because of getting "snapped off" by things like KJo. Oh wait... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[degenrat]

i suck bad. kj seems woirse and worse.

still having trouble finding the logice for the auto addon. i would say i'd addon 95% of the time. but with that many chips i DO NOT thnkk that it is +$EV to do so. I get 2k extra chips or 15% of my stack. If there is 3k in the prizepool that would make my investment $10 roughly %5 if i win the seat. Also there should be roughly 2,000,000 chips in playmaking it what $3 for .1% of the chips in play? not what i would call a value.

How would we assign a value to those chips as they relate to my ability to get the seat?

[FortunaMaximus]

[ QUOTE ]
How would we assign a value to those chips as they relate to my ability to get the seat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rough guesstimate outlined below:


14k static, assume 90% take the addon, that's an average of t1800 added to the average stack, bumping it to t7.3k (accuracy be damned, just outlining an example)

You drop from a having 2.54x the average chips to 1.91x the average. A 33% drop.

Take the addon, your stack is 2.19x the average, or a 16% drop.

Monetary value of addon in comparsion to the seat value, regardless of your investment: 3/215 or 1.3%.