Is God "just"? - Page 2

Lestat · #11 10-10-2006, 12:30 PM

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You are born into a family. You are born with a certain race. You are not born into a religion. Question: what happens to a muslim if he leaves islam?

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You're playing semantics. If you are born in a country inhabited by Muslims... your family is Muslim and you are indoctrinated into the Muslim faith from the day you're born... surprise, you become a Muslim.

I hate when you don't even try to be rational and answer the question.

So your answer is... that Muslim burns for eternity because he was born in a bad country? That is a sign of God's love and justice?

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I think txag is using his logic. I also think he honestly believes that if he were born into a Muslim or Jewish family he would've somehow found out the importance of Jesus Christ on his own.

This is why I say there is no bigger of a bigot than one who thinks his religion is the one and only correct religion.

kurto · #12 10-10-2006, 01:04 PM

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I think txag is using his logic . I also think he honestly believes that if he were born into a Muslim or Jewish family he would've somehow found out the importance of Jesus Christ on his own.

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That's why having all Txag in threads where people are looking for a debate always goes on goofy side tangents because you have to always address "txag logic." Where his belief system and his heart substitute for real world analysis and reason.

The ironic thing is, I think he probably thinks he's doing good (for his religion). I mean, as far as I can he only comes to this message board to preach. I've never seen a post from him that wasn't him preaching for his religion. And yet I feel posts by him just make anyone doubting think his religion seems MORE irrational. ("I was on the fence, but that guy Txag makes NO sense") He only makes sense if you've already 'drank the koolaid.'

txag007 · #13 10-10-2006, 01:18 PM

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Question: what happens to a muslim if he leaves islam?

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Depends on which god is the "real" one.

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No, no, no...today, in this world, while he's still alive. What happens to him?

vhawk01 · #14 10-10-2006, 01:19 PM

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Question: what happens to a muslim if he leaves islam?

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Depends on which god is the "real" one.

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No, no, no...today, in this world, while he's still alive. What happens to him?

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I buy him an ice cream cone.

Hopey · #15 10-10-2006, 02:08 PM

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Question: what happens to a muslim if he leaves islam?

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Depends on which god is the "real" one.

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No, no, no...today, in this world, while he's still alive. What happens to him?

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Okay, I'll bite: It depends on where he lives. If he's in Afghanistan or Iran, he might be killed for leaving his religion. If he's in most other Muslim countries, he'd probably be ostracized, but wouldn't be killed.

What does any of this have to do with whether a Muslim can go to heaven?

madnak · #16 10-10-2006, 02:15 PM

There's a reason I said...

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Exactly what about God could an objective observer call "good" according to conventional standards?

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We're talking about human standards here. Not God-based txag standards. And we're also talking about an objective observer - someone who can observe the situation dispassionately (ie without being influenced by God).

Then again, I guess that kind of observer would be "evil," huh? One separated from God? Very convenient. And valuing mercy above justice? Wow, just Satanic.

txag007 · #17 10-10-2006, 02:32 PM

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It depends on where he lives. If he's in Afghanistan or Iran, he might be killed for leaving his religion. If he's in most other Muslim countries, he'd probably be ostracized, but wouldn't be killed.

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Well that can't be good, can it? Would you consider that "unjust"?

See, revots says that God is not a just god if a muslim "spends eternity in hell because he happened to be born into the 'wrong' religion" when it's actually an "unjust" force that's keeping him in that religion.

morphball · #18 10-10-2006, 02:42 PM

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just: acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good

God, by definition is good. In other words, the defintion of good is derived from God. Therefore, God is just.

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Your argument is circular. Is your god proud that you try to define and defend him in such an incompentent way? He gave you a head for a reason, didn't he?

Use it and make your creator proud. (Hint - there is an argument that is not circular...)

vhawk01 · #19 10-10-2006, 02:45 PM

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It depends on where he lives. If he's in Afghanistan or Iran, he might be killed for leaving his religion. If he's in most other Muslim countries, he'd probably be ostracized, but wouldn't be killed.

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Well that can't be good, can it? Would you consider that "unjust"?

See, revots says that God is not a just god if a muslim "spends eternity in hell because he happened to be born into the 'wrong' religion" when it's actually an "unjust" force that's keeping him in that religion.

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No, it isn't. I think what he's saying is that, in the violent and non-violent countries alike, people who were born Muslim STAY Muslim, at least the vast majority. To imply that it is the unjust threat of force that keeps them Muslim (while perhaps this is an influence in certain regions) is very misleading.

kurto · #20 10-10-2006, 02:54 PM

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It depends on where he lives. If he's in Afghanistan or Iran, he might be killed for leaving his religion. If he's in most other Muslim countries, he'd probably be ostracized, but wouldn't be killed.

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Well that can't be good, can it? Would you consider that "unjust"?

See, revots says that God is not a just god if a muslim "spends eternity in hell because he happened to be born into the 'wrong' religion" when it's actually an "unjust" force that's keeping him in that religion.

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Txag... you gotta stop using your own sense of logic.

(1) If a Muslim converts and is killed by another person... that says nothing about whether a god is just or not... it means man is not just.
(2) He can leave the religion without letting anyone know. He can put up a false front. So nothing happens to him if he simply stops believing.
(3) The places where he's killed by his fellow man are few. The Muslim in queston could just as easily live in NYC. And when he leaves his faith, nothing happens except maybe he makes him Mother cry.
(4) I'm betting most of them don't convert. So your usual tact of going on a side tangent is meaningless to the questions raised in this thread.