I don't understand how torture works AT ALL

[PLOlover]

Torture is basically legitimized terrorism.

You torture to keep the people you AREN'T torturing in line.

This is easily seen if you look at the last 30 years of latin american history.

[SilverLining1]

[ QUOTE ]
Torture is basically legitimized terrorism.

You torture to keep the people you AREN'T torturing in line.

This is easily seen if you look at the last 30 years of latin american history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is a very nice point. nh.

[steve9789]

There is a wide debate on what is considered torture and what isn't.

IMHO, sleep deprivation, climate manipulation, fear of dogs, waterboarding and prolonged standing isn't torture.

[captain2man]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a wide debate on what is considered torture and what isn't.

IMHO, sleep deprivation, climate manipulation, fear of dogs, waterboarding and prolonged standing isn't torture.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? What's the line you cross when it DOES become torture?

That had a demonstration on CNN of waterboarding....sure looked like torture to me.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Torture is basically legitimized terrorism.

You torture to keep the people you AREN'T torturing in line.

This is easily seen if you look at the last 30 years of latin american history.



Here is a very nice point. nh.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.powderburns.org/

This guy wrote a book and was just interviewed by Alex Jones and he was DEA agent in south america and talks about torture and stuff and how it was used to keep people in line. BTW, CIA and stuff were intimately tied in with this torture in south america, so US history of torture is absolutely nothing new.

[steve9789]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a wide debate on what is considered torture and what isn't.

IMHO, sleep deprivation, climate manipulation, fear of dogs, waterboarding and prolonged standing isn't torture.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? What's the line you cross when it DOES become torture?

That had a demonstration on CNN of waterboarding....sure looked like torture to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beating, electrocution, starvation, water deprivation, removing bodyparts, burning, stabbing bodyparts etc...

Do you realize college hazings are worse than whats currently being done to these detainees? Someone should notify the UN and the Red Cross that US college fraternities are violating common article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
Trained interrogators get very reliable information.

[/ QUOTE ] You mean ..through torture??

I suppose you have some hard facts to back up this claim, or at least testimony from experienced torturers. Anything personal you care to recount, in this matter?

It would be interesting to recount evidence from your side of the argument, i.e. the torturer's. We hear so much from the side of the whining, protesting tortured cry-babies, but we never get to hear from the hard-working torturers.

[ QUOTE ]
If it were permitted a combination of thiopental and waterboarding (in that order) would be even more reliable, and have minimal lasting effects.

[/ QUOTE ]Care to share some data? Not just success rates but stuff like how many subjects of your preferred torture you expect to lose before you get something out of them, etc. You know, death-to-confession rate, the usual stuff.

Mickey Brausch

Wiki entry for Thiopental
Wiki entry for Waterboarding

[Mickey Brausch]

I have met and made acquaintances with a number of former torturers. They were military men, parts of the machinery of military dictatorships. They are all good family men, of impeccable professional background, not given easily to corruption, and mostly devout Christians. Their unshakeable hostility towards godless communism has enabled them to rip the nails out of the feet of three suspects and then wash up and head home for dinner.

Torture is a terrific method of getting confessions. It is a mediocre method for getting information. The incentive of a tortured person who is innocent is to give something to the torturer that will stop the torture: This usually results in false and counter-productive information.

The Germans in occupied Europe routinely tortured mostly everyone who was imprisoned as a suspect for sabotage or communist sympathies. The torturers were able to extract information that was mostly useless, often misleading, and occasionally valuable. Sometimes extremely valuable (whole networks were broken up).

However, the torture approach of the Nazis was used duting actual wartime, i.e. the war against the partisans and the local saboteurs. And it brought sometimes spectacular successes but was mostly unable to make a dent in the resistance. On the other hand, British inteligence during wartime managed to turn the majority of the German spies they caught on British soil! They achieved this without not just torture but without so much as punching the prisoner in the face. The British are smart: They value a turned agent more highly than the location of some maildrops.

The whole strategy in this "War On Terror" is deeply flawed. (Though it has the boisterous, busy-boyd appearance of great achievements...) Therefore, we can't expect the tactics to be correct.

I'll just ask again : How many deep cover agents do you suppose the United States has right now inside islamic terrorist organisations?

Mickey Brausch

[kickabuck]

The Brits may be smart, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Al Queda or their sympathizers 'turning' during this present war of civilizations.

[Eagles]

Just because you ethically disagree with torture does not mean that it does not work. Torture clearly does work. If an innocent is tortured it is not a problem with torture but rather a problem with finding who is guilty.