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#11
09-26-2006, 09:08 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
[ QUOTE ]
okay, lets review really quick. there are several concepts here we need to consider: 1) the free card. 2) repping a bigger hand. 3) how we would play bigger hands. 4) its possible that BB is weak. 5) our outs. we have 15 to BB single pair. 6) if we call, and villain bets the turn, we cannot call profitably unless he bets less than 1/2 the pot. 7) Pot control. we raise, we get two cards and may buy the pot as well as build a big pot for when we hit. [/ QUOTE ] 1) The card isn't free. We had to raise flop to get it, so calling flop and turn costs the same as raising flop 2) This is the most important point and normally the best reason to raise, but we have a read here that he's not folding, so I see no reason to rep a big hand 3) Vs this opponent, it really doesn't matter 4) according to our read, this doesn't matter 5) thats only slightly better than 50/50 over 2 cards. I'd much rather take the large implied odds +EV than the tiny pot odds +EV here 6) just completely wrong 7) we control the pot size better in the direction we want vs this opponent by calling no raising 
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#12
09-26-2006, 09:13 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
so we just call down and raise when we hit?
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#14
09-26-2006, 09:31 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
I'd say that raising the flop is cheaper than calling another turn bet, unless villain likes to bet really small on the turn.
Also, by raising flop you take the initiative in the hand, which is great when villain also has a draw (makes him less likely to bluff you out when neither player improves). Raising also disguises our hand more when we hit the flush.
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#15
09-26-2006, 09:49 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say that raising the flop is cheaper than calling another turn bet, unless villain likes to bet really small on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] if this is the case, then your flop raise sizes must really blow [ QUOTE ] Also, by raising flop you take the initiative in the hand, which is great when villain also has a draw (makes him less likely to bluff you out when neither player improves). [/ QUOTE ] wrong, I'm afraid. I'f villain has a draw, i don't want him to fold, I want both of us to hit and then stack him. And people in general don't 3barrel draws that have missed ever at this level, so we don't need to worry about folding hte best hand (A-high) [ QUOTE ] Raising also disguises our hand more when we hit the flush. [/ QUOTE ] Great, lets represent an overpair instead!!!! Plus, this guy doesn't care what you have or are representing
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#16
09-26-2006, 09:55 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'd say that raising the flop is cheaper than calling another turn bet, unless villain likes to bet really small on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] if this is the case, then your flop raise sizes must really blow. [/ QUOTE ] I'd make it around $13 on the flop. Is that too small for you? If you call, the pot is $15 on the turn. Does he bet less than $8.5? Your other points are valid and taken.
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#17
09-26-2006, 10:10 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd say that raising the flop is cheaper than calling another turn bet, unless villain likes to bet really small on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] if this is the case, then your flop raise sizes must really blow. [/ QUOTE ] I'd make it around $13 on the flop. Is that too small for you? [/ QUOTE ] I'd me making a PSR which is most likely more than he would be making it on the turn. And yeah, your raise is way too small. How much would you raise wih a set here?
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#18
09-26-2006, 10:16 PM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
PSR would be $19.5 if I'm doing my math correctly.
Maybe I'm not betting enough, but a I rarely RAISE for full pot on the flop. I often bet full pot, but not raise that much.
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#19
09-27-2006, 12:52 AM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
Ok good discourse, thanks.
I raised it up to $15, villain pushed and I called. Villain showed 8To and I hit my flush. Then lost it all back on very next hand QJ vs KJ with J on flop, two quick AI's (thought he was just tilting)
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#20
09-27-2006, 01:12 AM
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Re: I like my flop...call or raise? (50 6max)
[ QUOTE ]
Also, by raising flop you take the initiative in the hand, which is great when villain also has a draw (makes him less likely to bluff you out when neither player improves). [/ QUOTE ] Our draw > villain's draw. I don't want to potentially raise him out.
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