$11: Can he do that ???

[BrassMonkey]

I'd probably raise less on the flop (there IS an overcard to your Qs out, after all). If he pushes over the top of me, I bail out with a reasonable chip stack. Why end your tournament here when big stack is dying for a call?

-Brass

[hedgehug]

But am I reraising too few hands preflop here ? (And Villain doesn't know and thinks he is allright) Or is ymu right, that Villain gains control over the table if he gets my stack and therefore has right odds that way around ?

[ymu]

[ QUOTE ]
So you all think the flop raise & Call is ok? Isnt he behind when he faces the raise and should fold.

Yeah sucks to dump so many chips, but....live to fight another day or go all in on a 2(3BDSD) outer?

Or do you assume big stack is bluffing here? Seems to be risking a heap of chips if he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can fold here the way it played out - hero has 2/3 of his stack in the middle before he knows there's a problem.

Villain's minbet on the flop was masterful - it looks like a weak blocking attempt on a missed flop, virtually guaranteeing that hero will come over the top and then end up with so many chips in the middle that he can't really fold to the 3 bet.

The only way I can see to save your stack is to push over the original raise pre-flop, but with 30BB that's excessive and with QQ you probably don't want to scare him off.

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm going broke in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you give villan?
What out of that range are we beating? How many Combos?
Why "GO broke" intentionally? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
If we win, sure our stack is huge. But how often do we win?

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you all think the flop raise & Call is ok? Isnt he behind when he faces the raise and should fold.

Yeah sucks to dump so many chips, but....live to fight another day or go all in on a 2(3BDSD) outer?

Or do you assume big stack is bluffing here? Seems to be risking a heap of chips if he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can fold here the way it played out - hero has 2/3 of his stack in the middle before he knows there's a problem.

Villain's minbet on the flop was masterful - it looks like a weak blocking attempt on a missed flop, virtually guaranteeing that hero will come over the top and then end up with so many chips in the middle that he can't really fold to the 3 bet.

The only way I can see to save your stack is to push over the original raise pre-flop, but with 30BB that's excessive and with QQ you probably don't want to scare him off

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah i agree with all your points, however it seems alot of you think "OH IVE LOST, lets just throw in all my chips and see if i get lucky or win one in 10 times".

The small bet by villian was ok(Unless Hero has AQ/FD).

However his line seems to say "i want action" specially after that push... its over... Fold please.

[ymu]

[ QUOTE ]
But am I reraising too few hands preflop here ? (And Villain doesn't know and thinks he is allright) Or is ymu right, that Villain gains control over the table if he gets my stack and therefore has right odds that way around ?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you reraised a blind steal more often, he'd be less likely to think you had a real hand (but he might be less likely to try a steal). If you've been folding to steals a lot he may think you're just fed up with him and have decided to play back with something weaker than QQ.

Remember that your range includes overcards and lower PPs - he thinks he's ahead preflop and knows that he is very likely to be ahead on the flop, because you won't hit most of the time and some of the times you hit, so will he. He has enough chips to make you fold if you don't hit, so most of the time he will take it down with a half pot bet.

[optimus_prime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm going broke in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you give villan?
What out of that range are we beating? How many Combos?
Why "GO broke" intentionally? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
If we win, sure our stack is huge. But how often do we win?

[/ QUOTE ]


Okay so clearly my post needs more explanation.


[ QUOTE ]

PartyPoker Regular Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t3795)
CO (t1708)
Button (t3895)
SB (t6970)
Hero (t3632)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with Q Q
UTG folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises to t325, Hero raises to t950, SB calls t675

Flop: (t1950) T K 8 (2 players)
SB bets t100, Hero raises to t1025, SB raises to t5820, Hero calls t1557

Turn: (t10452) 5 (2 players)


River: (t10452) 7 (2 players)

SB balance 10602, bet 6970, collected 10602, net +3632 [ 8s 8c ] [ three of a kind, eights --


[/ QUOTE ]

The way it was played, after the raise to 1025 there's no way I'm folding. That being said I would have played it differently: smaller raise on the flop, OR if I thought villain was loose enough I'd just shove pre-flop (a ridiculous raise I know, but works well if you think he's the type of player that looks to 'catch you')


True, upon further inspection there's a boat load of hands that beat us here, but I'd still expect to see a ton that don't: Any T, pockets down to 6s, maybe 5s, maybe even AQ/AJ if he's really aggressive.

[BrassMonkey]

Exactly - I don't understand the "I had a great hand and it was JUST another blind, so I HAVE to get all my money in, even though the flop stinks" mentality. You showed a ton of strength pre-flop and on the flop. Villian knows there's a strong possibility that you have a king, and doesn't care. Why not live to fight another day? Maybe it's too weak-tight, but I fold to this push every time. Your huge flop bet was to shut out a flush draw, right? Instead of betting so much to block out the unlikely flush draw, couldn't you have raised to 300-500 as a feeler bet? Then if he called, you could put him on a king, set of eights, flush draw, and you'd have to proceed more cautiously on fourth street. If you were lucky, villian might have checked his set on the turn, and you might have pulled a flush draw.

I dunno. Just seems like there's no reason to commit sepuku here.

-Brass

[ymu]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah i agree with all your points, however it seems alot of you think "OH IVE LOST, lets just throw in all my chips and see if i get lucky or win one in 10 times".

The small bet by villian was ok(Unless Hero has AQ/FD).

However his line seems to say "i want action" specially after that push... its over... Fold please.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's pretty read dependent, and in the heat of this particular battle I'm not sure I'd stop to think about whether he's made such a weak lead before, or how he'd made his chips, or what his weak lead/big reraises have meant in the past.

The weak lead was a good bet regardless of potential draws because

a) draws, especially combo draws, are much less worrying HU

b) draws are much less worrying when the chance of hitting a pair on the board kills a lot of their equity

c) you know that the apparent post-oak bluff means that hero will almost certainly make a proper sized raise himself and do the betting for you (precisely because of those draws, and because of the pre-flop momentum, and because he thinks you have nothing), allowing you to put him all in before he's had a chance to think about it.

It puts hero in a no win situation - masterful.

I might be able to find a fold if I'd had these sorts of battles with him before, but it would be very difficult, especially if I'd seen him bluff/semi-bluff big a lot before (which, along with being lucky, is often how big stacks got big, especially at lower buy-ins). If he has a LAGgy image, this is the hand where the big payoff comes.

[NL Newbie]

Good summary ymu, so is your verdict to push? What range do you give villan though?