Preflop survey --- 5 hands ez quick

[NoahSD]

Hand 1 is call or fold. You can't push because you're too deep and reraising less commits way too much of your stack--plus you probably don't have much FE. Call vs. fold is closish. Cons of calling are that you're not closing the action, SB's range should be tight, AJs is a tough hand to play postflop against a tight range, and your stack isn't near deep enough to give you implied odds for reverse domination/flushes. Pros of calling are the great odds and the fact that SB's raise size is donkish, so he may not know he should be tight.

I'd lean towards a fold.

2 is always a fold. You're too deep to push and too short to call.

3 is also close. If CO had like 3.5k or more, this'd be a much easier call. I fold since he's not, but I could be wrong.

4 is very table dependent. If you're raising here, it's basically a steal. So, don't raise unless you can profitably steal a bunch at this table. In a 4/180, I'd raise here readless because 4/180 players never resteal and they call raises a ton only to fold to c-bets way too much.

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
I got #2 wrong...

Surprised people are talking about folding #3, honestly.

I agree w/Nath on #1 too. Call, but take either pair slow.


Awesome. Thanks guys. More of these to come. Trying to tweak this [censored] out.

(Don't let this 'thanks' stop you from replying your input if you see this)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you call in hand 1?

Let's say the flop comes Ace high. SB bets, you have to fold. Let's say flop comes J high, SB bets you still have to probably fold. If you have a flush draw on the flop then maybe you can continue but that will only happen 10% of the time.

If the flop comes A or J high and SB checks, do you bet or check?

[udbrky]

1) Call. You're getting 3:1. If you get a favorable flop, you'll get a nice pot. If not, you get away from it. I think it depends like Nath said if you can get away from top pair to heat.

2) Fold.

3) Fold, but I'm a sissy when my stack starts getting smaller. I like to double up or go home (or just pick up chips easily).

4) Raise. I think this depends on your image. If you've been bullying, probably just limp. If the table's gonna come back over the top big no matter what, fold. Or, you can limp-fold and set up a situation where you can limp-re-raise with AA (or even raise, fold to a big re-raise to set it up later). I've had that work before.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got #2 wrong...

Surprised people are talking about folding #3, honestly.

I agree w/Nath on #1 too. Call, but take either pair slow.


Awesome. Thanks guys. More of these to come. Trying to tweak this [censored] out.

(Don't let this 'thanks' stop you from replying your input if you see this)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you call in hand 1?

Let's say the flop comes Ace high. SB bets, you have to fold. Let's say flop comes J high, SB bets you still have to probably fold. If you have a flush draw on the flop then maybe you can continue but that will only happen 10% of the time.

If the flop comes A or J high and SB checks, do you bet or check?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have good odds to play for SC value here....and I can count on most $4 players to misplay postflop anyways.

If I thought SB (or UTG really) was any good, I'd fold. Then again, if SB (or UTG really) were good enough to count in this picture, UTG prolly raises or folds and SB prolly completes or raises more.


I prolly check my ace but bet my jack. Dunno if thats totally true, but I'm kinda tired and that makes sense off the top of my head.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]


4 is very table dependent. If you're raising here, it's basically a steal.

[/ QUOTE ]


I didn't put this in the OP - but this table had been playing pretty weakly. So, this raise for me was automatic. I didn't put the read in, 'cuz I wanted to see what people would say - readless.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]
on #3:
when u call a preflop raise based on implied odds, u have to figure your chips will be made off of the preflop raiser. in this spot the preflop raiser has very few chips so your implied odds are low. also he will often play the flop aggressively since the pot will be big relative to his stack, so u cant really play ur draws very profitably unless u semibluff but that will be risky as you're oop and wont really know where the other players are at when u flop a draw.

not saying its right or wrong but that's my rationale for folding...

[/ QUOTE ]


good post - thank you for that

I should really post that entire hand...it ended up being pretty interesting....

[shaundeeb]

Funny I rather see a call in hand #3 than 1 reverse implied odds. Though I usually still call 1 only if its suited Ajo is just a hand I play badly AJs I would play AQo.

2 is def a fold I am guessing the flop came out huge and you are mad you didn't stack someone you would have.

3 I told you I call plus 87s my fav hand.

hand 4 I open any pair UTG mid stages people give a lot of respect call if its a minreraise or double your raise for set and the rare flops you hit OESD etc.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you call in hand 1?

Let's say the flop comes Ace high. SB bets, you have to fold. Let's say flop comes J high, SB bets you still have to probably fold.

[/ QUOTE ]No you don't. Depends on how agressive SB is. If he's c-betting most flops then I'm calling here and then re-evaluating the turn.

AJs and having position on the raiser, even with poor relativie position to the other two players, turns this into a marginal call for me. I'd fold AJo.

[Jeff76]

1) Super thin call, I think, because of our position and the fact the ace is suited. I fold AJo here.

2) Fold. I do not want to pay money to play 86o OOP.

3) Fold. I like a call here w/ a deeper stack from initial raiser, but here I just don't think we have the implied odds we need here.

4) I raise as a steal IF I can steal UTG at this table and haven't stolen enough recently to get called light here. I fold otherwise.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny I rather see a call in hand #3 than 1 reverse implied odds. Though I usually still call 1 only if its suited Ajo is just a hand I play badly AJs I would play AQo.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah...AJs is the borderline here.
AJo ez dump. AQo ez call. AJs.....?

I'm pretty worried about reverse implied odds here, actually....but still feel compelled to call based on pot odds and the such.

[ QUOTE ]

2 is def a fold I am guessing the flop came out huge and you are mad you didn't stack someone you would have.


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Not at all...Just tossing the suited/un-suited comparison out there between 2 and 3 in similar situations.

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3 I told you I call plus 87s my fav hand.

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Agreed. I would never fold 78s in that spot.

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hand 4 I open any pair UTG mid stages people give a lot of respect call if its a minreraise or double your raise for set and the rare flops you hit OESD etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was another direction I've been thinking about. When steals are min-raised.... worthy of another thread.