I hate free plays from the BB

[the machine]

call behind and lead a safe turn

[Jay Riall]

[ QUOTE ]
3 betting the flop here is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain why?

[the machine]

because you are only getting reraised by hands that beat you. we have a strong hand but it is not unbeatable by any means. he has shown us strength by raising us and if we reraise we lose alot of equity from worse kings that will likely fold and lose more money to hands that have us beat

[JustToast]

Cmon... lets be realistic. If you're playing 100BB effective deep you're saying nobody donks off a buyin with TPTK or even worse?

DR is 200BB here, thats why its important to know how deep the other guy is.

[the machine]

the other guy is 150BB deep. im not really sure who this response is directed to

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 betting the flop here is terrible.

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Could you explain why?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. We lose too much value from our hand as it is now pretty much face up allowing villain to take a near perfect line against us. We are far less likely to get paid off by hands that we beat now.

2. We open ourself up to a push whereby we have to fold many times when we have the best hand. A club draw pair/overcard combo could well push this as well as the hands that have us crushed.

3. If he just calls our 3 bet we have to face 2 more streets OOP in a big pot that we just wished was over. This leads to us having to either check/fold or check/call the turn both of which are undesirable although check/fold is the better of the two.

4. The best senario of the 3 bet if he calls is if the turn then goes check/check giving us back control of a bet/fold river line.

The call of the raise followed by a turn lead is far less likely to be raised by a draw with 1 card to come and some 1 pair hands will still pay off. It keeps our hand reasonably disguised whilst allowing more control over the pot size than a flop 3 bet does.

[tubasteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Cmon... lets be realistic. If you're playing 100BB effective deep you're saying nobody donks off a buyin with TPTK or even worse?

DR is 200BB here, thats why its important to know how deep the other guy is.

[/ QUOTE ]

They'll donk it off a lot more often with the flop call and lead the turn.

I don't remember seeing anyone propose calling flop and CRAI on turn, but I think that line is sweet. I'm not really planning on getting away unless some bad cards start to fall, so lets try to stack this guy!

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember seeing anyone propose calling flop and CRAI on turn, but I think that line is sweet. I'm not really planning on getting away unless some bad cards start to fall, so lets try to stack this guy!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have tried this so many times in these spots and the villains check behind so often that I much prefer the lead unless I have a good read that they will nearly always fire the turn.

[JustToast]

hah i totally missed that its 150BB this whole time, thought DR missed posting it. I'm just going to step outside for a coffee now... yikes.

Ok, pot is $45 if you call, $275 each effective behind. Yeah, call is better I'm declaring that Im switching sides and officially need a coffee.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 betting the flop here is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain why?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. We lose too much value from our hand as it is now pretty much face up allowing villain to take a near perfect line against us. We are far less likely to get paid off by hands that we beat now.

2. We open ourself up to a push whereby we have to fold many times when we have the best hand. A club draw pair/overcard combo could well push this as well as the hands that have us crushed.

3. If he just calls our 3 bet we have to face 2 more streets OOP in a big pot that we just wished was over. This leads to us having to either check/fold or check/call the turn both of which are undesirable although check/fold is the better of the two.

4. The best senario of the 3 bet if he calls is if the turn then goes check/check giving us back control of a bet/fold river line.

The call of the raise followed by a turn lead is far less likely to be raised by a draw with 1 card to come and some 1 pair hands will still pay off. It keeps our hand reasonably disguised whilst allowing more control over the pot size than a flop 3 bet does.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh