Checkthrough for the win (LC)

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he was, but this play would have been better if he weren't

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think your flop play is inherently bad. For instance, if you had TT, then I would hate your flop play. With KK and even QQ giving a possible free card isnt that dangerous, and I suppose against certain opponents it is theoretically possible that checking this flop can be better than betting this flop. For example: If the player to your left was an autobettor and the player to your right was a clueless habitual bluffer, checking KK or QQ in this spot may be the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny post as it is just like a highstakes hand posted a few weeks back where a player (i believe mikeL) checked through TT on an ace high flop. I asked if he was checking for value and he said yes, and people said it made much more sense with KK.

It's a great thread, I'll dig it up.

Edit: Here 60/120 TT hand, good thread

[elffaw]

deadmoney: plz don't call this results oriented. it minimizes loss against Ax and it maximizes win against unpaired hands that would normally fold to a flop bet. the only type of hand i lose value against is a PP.

[Atlanta Andrew]

[ QUOTE ]
the only type of hand i lose value against is a PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are oversimplifying things a bit with this statement. Remember that this flop contains the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], not exactly the most uncoordinated cards. There are many hands that call a flop bet besides pocket pairs and aces.

-Andrew

[W. Deranged]

Elf,

Do you really minimize value against AA?

You are committing to paying Ax 2 bb. If you bet the flop, you might get away from your hand for much less. Consider:

You bet flop, get one call, and then get check-raised. Now you get away from the hand on the turn for .5-1 sb, depending on some factors.

Or, You bet flop, get one call. Turn blanks, you bet, villain check-raises, you fold. Now you get away from the hand for 1.5 bb instead of 2.

Or, you bet flop, get one call. Turn blanks, you bet, villain calls. River blanks, you check through (not that this is necessarily correct), and villain wins with Ax. Again, you pay 1.5 bb instead of 2.


I'm not saying that checking the flop is obviously more expensive, or that the possible costs of checking outweigh the value of letting an opponent catch up a bit and pay you off. I'm just saying that it's ambiguous. That's why I'm pretty "meh" about this line, particularly in three-way pots against low-limit players. It's not necessarily clear to me you save money by checking, as very often your opponents will do stuff that let's you get away from the hand much cheaper when beat anyway. Checking allows your opponents with Ax to play perfectly, even when they're generally pretty dumb players. Against better players, checking may make more sense in that they'll be more likely to extract max value when they do have an A and you bet the flop.

[elffaw]

Good points