Lagtard on my left and I'm lost

[James.]

if the maniac has changed the game to an extent that everyone is going maniacal PF tighten up. i'm thinking TT+, AQs, AKs, AKo. you can't play any implied odds hands if it is going 3bets or more pf and hands like 88 and 99 may be best pf when the money is going in, but multiway you will be outdrawn a good portion of the time with few outs if you don't flop a set. it may sound boring, but it will make the most money i think(if i am understanding the table dynamics properly). also, it will help minimize variance which can be a big factor given the action and players involved. these pots get so big pf that alot of people with alot of hands are going to the river. it is an unavoidable fact. and your seat sucks.

[Dazarath]

I disagree with everyone saying tighten up. When your opponents are opening/3-betting a wider range, then you should be capping a wider range. HEFAP's section on wild games is pretty poor too. I don't disagree that you could probably show a profit just playing AA-JJ/AK (or whatever hands he lists); I disagree that it's the most +EV strategy to play. It's definitely going to be high variance playing at such a table, so if you can't handle it, then you might want to switch tables. If you have the bankroll and the stomach, though, it'd definitely be a great situation to be in (except that your seat sucks).

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone saying tighten up. When your opponents are opening/3-betting a wider range, then you should be capping a wider range. HEFAP's section on wild games is pretty poor too. I don't disagree that you could probably show a profit just playing AA-JJ/AK (or whatever hands he lists); I disagree that it's the most +EV strategy to play. It's definitely going to be high variance playing at such a table, so if you can't handle it, then you might want to switch tables. If you have the bankroll and the stomach, though, it'd definitely be a great situation to be in (except that your seat sucks).

[/ QUOTE ]

so what's your range?

[Hobbs.]

are you saying that people were paying enough attention to come in for a cold cap with a wide range of hands if you action went you raise maniac 3-bets? If so, thats fine cut out some of your marginal hands that don't have high card strength, but otherwise just now you're going to be playing a higher variance game.

If people are willing to let you and the maniac drive everybody out then start getting yourself isolated by him. Open raise Ax, broadway hands, pps and get to SD with your weak hands with showdown value and take him to value town with everything else.

[SeaEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
are you saying that people were paying enough attention to come in for a cold cap with a wide range of hands if you action went you raise maniac 3-bets?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it wasn't so much that people we're paying attention. It's hard to miss a guy that's raising about 75% of the time. There was a lot of LRR going on as people understood they were always going to get a chance to 3-bet their big hands and probably see them get capped too. And likewise, people started cold-calling 3 bets with less hands, so isolating was hard to do.

It's interesting that the advice is all over the place. I ended up playing the last 50 hands or so really tight and passive. Of course that's not enough hands to counteract variance, so I haven't any idea if that was the best way to react. It seemed the safest, but I can't help but think it didn't take advantage of all the loose money laying on the table.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone saying tighten up. When your opponents are opening/3-betting a wider range, then you should be capping a wider range.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true when we have position on the maniac/overreacting opponents. But when Hero is going to be out of position on just about every hand, those marginal hands become losers against halfway decent opponents (which I'm assuming the rest of the table was). Too often if you raise with KQo, for example, it's going to be 3-bet by the maniac & capped by someone behind him, at which point you have to check/fold nearly every flop you don't hit...especially when the action on the flop is almost always going to be at least bet/raise. Same thing goes for hands like AJ-ATo & small/medium suited aces.

Out of position in a game like this, you pretty much have to anticpate every hand costing you 4 SBs to see the flop & at least 2 more to see the turn, and adjust your starting hand requirements to be primarily hands which have enough strength to pay those bets unimproved.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
you pretty much have to anticpate every hand costing you 4 SBs to see the flop & at least 2 more to see the turn, and adjust your starting hand requirements to be primarily hands which have enough strength to pay those bets unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was immediately left of a loose/aggressive(60/30ish) last night for a few orbits. Other players started coming in with hands like suited connectors. One player across the table started getting out of his comfort zone, perhaps mesmerized by the big pots. Preflop was 3-bet and capped the majority of pots making these hands expensive to play, especially when they flopped weak draws. As OP stated, how do you know where you stand postflop?

I think the above is the best advice. Once the whole table catches on - let the other players suffer the swings.

[Ballers83]

Play tighter. When you enter a pot, raise and let the lagtard reraise you to thin the field. If you're heads up with the lagtard, just call him down with ace high or any pocket pair.

[SeaEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
Play tighter. When you enter a pot, raise and let the lagtard reraise you to thin the field. If you're heads up with the lagtard, just call him down with ace high or any pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean by 'play tighter'? What opening hands do you propose I play (and do I raise or limp) with:
* 2+ limpers to me in MP/LP
* A raise in front of me (and any number of callers)
* Folds to me in EP/MP

Since the play after the flop tended to very expensive (everyone was trying to get HU with lagtard), give some examples of where it would be correct to call flop or turn raises with PPs and/or A-highs.

Thanks in advance,

[Little_blue]

"but don't even think about folding any pocket pairs preflop. Reason being that, with the maniac going crazy on just about anything & the rest of the table assuming any bet or raise is just an isolation attempt against said maniac, your implied odds on a flopped set go through the roof."

I disagree....your implied odds go down not up...you or 4 bettign before you even see the flop...that's 1/4 your implied odds....yes you make some back if the mainiac keeps raising(does he here its not been stated). on the big betstreets...nbut its not usely enough...

What these games become is higher stake poker with a smaller blind...Thus tighten up a lot...I think HPFAP the adivice is only play AA, KK, JJ, TT and AKS....other hands do have +ev..but very high variance (qjs) type hands. If your only reason for playing poker is to make money thes games are fine, but usely there boring...you have to play a lot less hands, and you can't wrok on any of your skills card reading is joke, ect..

The Psychology of poker has a pretty good chpeter on this as well...