Floor Ruling?? 75s vs. 22 on 36963 board

[steamraise]

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Does mucking the cards face down make my hand dead even though I first declared "I play the board" which was still face up?

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You must show two cards to get a pot.

If you put your cards face up on the table you have
tabled your hand and your cards speak for themselves.

If you flash your cards to another player and them
muck them face down you have a real chance of not
getting any of the pot.

[Rottersod]

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Local cardroom. NL Hold'em. I'm in a small raised pot and the board gets checked down to show 36963 and I open 75s for the table and say, "I play board". My opponent opens 22, I laugh and say, "ok, chop" and I throw my cards to the muck.

Should the whole pot be awarded to my opponent or should it be chopped?

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Technically, you don't say whether you 'tabled' your hand. You just 'opened' it. Which is equivalent to just flashing it. In that case, cardspeak isn't attached.

However, the 22 would be a dick for pursuing this not to be a chopped pot based on that even though, technically, a case could be made in his favor.

If you must, don't throw your cards into the muck until they've been verified with cardspeak being attached. It can be an expensive lesson.

b

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His cards did speak since he said he was playing the board - those were his cards and they were all face up. The cards he was playing were not in his hand so he should be able to muck them and chop.

[AKQJ10]

Now's the part where we all get confused, because of the rule that Randy and others have mentioned whereby in some rooms you don't have to show a winning hand if you say "I'm playing the board."

I've never seen this rule invoked on the East Coast. (I've never seen it invoked on the West Coast, either, but I only played there once for a few days.) I don't know if it's a regional thing.

I'm 99% sure that if you say, "I'm playing the board," and muck at Foxwoods, you will be considered to have mucked. It's no different than if an opponent shows JT on a AJ99K board and you show a bare ace then muck your other card. Or to take another example, to win any part of an Omaha pot you must show four cards, regardless of whether you're showing two cards for high and the other two for low.

The fact that the rooms that allow you to muck and play the board don't also allow the show-one-muck-one seems a little inconsistent, but I'm still not sure I understand the point of that rule.

To win at showdown, you have to show a complete and valid hand. The words, "I'm playing the board" are not generally considered a valid hold 'em hand, with the exceptions noted.

[bernie]

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[ QUOTE ]
Local cardroom. NL Hold'em. I'm in a small raised pot and the board gets checked down to show 36963 and I open 75s for the table and say, "I play board". My opponent opens 22, I laugh and say, "ok, chop" and I throw my cards to the muck.

Should the whole pot be awarded to my opponent or should it be chopped?

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically, you don't say whether you 'tabled' your hand. You just 'opened' it. Which is equivalent to just flashing it. In that case, cardspeak isn't attached.

However, the 22 would be a dick for pursuing this not to be a chopped pot based on that even though, technically, a case could be made in his favor.

If you must, don't throw your cards into the muck until they've been verified with cardspeak being attached. It can be an expensive lesson.

b

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His cards did speak since he said he was playing the board - those were his cards and they were all face up. The cards he was playing were not in his hand so he should be able to muck them and chop.

[/ QUOTE ]

His cards don't speak if he doesn't table them even if he is playing the board.

You have to showdown 2 cards to win. Even if they don't play.

b

[bernie]

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Now's the part where we all get confused, because of the rule that Randy and others have mentioned whereby in some rooms you don't have to show a winning hand if you say "I'm playing the board."

I've never seen this rule invoked on the East Coast. (I've never seen it invoked on the West Coast, either, but I only played there once for a few days.) I don't know if it's a regional thing.

I'm 99% sure that if you say, "I'm playing the board," and muck at Foxwoods, you will be considered to have mucked. It's no different than if an opponent shows JT on a AJ99K board and you show a bare ace then muck your other card. Or to take another example, to win any part of an Omaha pot you must show four cards, regardless of whether you're showing two cards for high and the other two for low.

The fact that the rooms that allow you to muck and play the board don't also allow the show-one-muck-one seems a little inconsistent, but I'm still not sure I understand the point of that rule.

To win at showdown, you have to show a complete and valid hand. The words, "I'm playing the board" are not generally considered a valid hold 'em hand, with the exceptions noted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Say there's a 4 way pot, the board shows a flush. Checked around on the river. 1st guy tables nothing. 2nd guy tables nothing, 3rd guy mucks, 4th guy tables nothing.

That's a 3 way chop. Just because the 3rd guy mucked, even though he'd 'technically' be playing the board, he isn't entitled to any of the pot.

In the OPs case, however, he did flash his hand so it could be considered going into a gray area since he didn't make his hand valid.

b

[Dynasty]

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[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Local cardroom. NL Hold'em. I'm in a small raised pot and the board gets checked down to show 36963 and I open 75s for the table and say, "I play board". My opponent opens 22, I laugh and say, "ok, chop" and I throw my cards to the muck.

Should the whole pot be awarded to my opponent or should it be chopped?

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically, you don't say whether you 'tabled' your hand. You just 'opened' it. Which is equivalent to just flashing it. In that case, cardspeak isn't attached.

However, the 22 would be a dick for pursuing this not to be a chopped pot based on that even though, technically, a case could be made in his favor.

If you must, don't throw your cards into the muck until they've been verified with cardspeak being attached. It can be an expensive lesson.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

His cards did speak since he said he was playing the board - those were his cards and they were all face up. The cards he was playing were not in his hand so he should be able to muck them and chop.

[/ QUOTE ]

His cards don't speak if he doesn't table them even if he is playing the board.

You have to showdown 2 cards to win. Even if they don't play.



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There are some places which allow you to say you're playing the board and not show your hole cards. But, you better be sure you're playing at such a place before you muck.

[RR]

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[ QUOTE ]
Local cardroom. NL Hold'em. I'm in a small raised pot and the board gets checked down to show 36963 and I open 75s for the table and say, "I play board". My opponent opens 22, I laugh and say, "ok, chop" and I throw my cards to the muck.

Should the whole pot be awarded to my opponent or should it be chopped?

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically, you don't say whether you 'tabled' your hand. You just 'opened' it. Which is equivalent to just flashing it. In that case, cardspeak isn't attached.

However, the 22 would be a dick for pursuing this not to be a chopped pot based on that even though, technically, a case could be made in his favor.

If you must, don't throw your cards into the muck until they've been verified with cardspeak being attached. It can be an expensive lesson.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

His cards did speak since he said he was playing the board - those were his cards and they were all face up. The cards he was playing were not in his hand so he should be able to muck them and chop.

[/ QUOTE ]

His cards don't speak if he doesn't table them even if he is playing the board.

You have to showdown 2 cards to win. Even if they don't play.



[/ QUOTE ]

There are some places which allow you to say you're playing the board and not show your hole cards. But, you better be sure you're playing at such a place before you muck.

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If you make sure of it you might as well turn up your cards. The rule about playing the board is written in there to protect players that are unfamiliar with casino procedures. If a player says "I'm playing the baord" and throws their cards in the muck I am awarding them the pot. If a player says "I'm playing the board" and the dealers tells him to show and he indicates he doesn't want to show I am not awarding him the pot; he was made aware of the rule to show to get the pot so he does not recieve the protection given to someone that is unfamiliar with casino procedures.

[Rottersod]

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If you make sure of it you might as well turn up your cards. The rule about playing the board is written in there to protect players that are unfamiliar with casino procedures. If a player says "I'm playing the baord" and throws their cards in the muck I am awarding them the pot. If a player says "I'm playing the board" and the dealers tells him to show and he indicates he doesn't want to show I am not awarding him the pot; he was made aware of the rule to show to get the pot so he does not recieve the protection given to someone that is unfamiliar with casino procedures.

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Exactly. Anyone who says otherwise is being a nit. Board plays, if you can beat it then you win. If not then chop the damn pot and lets move on to the next hand. If you are part of a 4 person check-call on the river and you muck before saying you play the board then you are SOL. Just say the damn words and that should be all that anyone at the table needs to hear.

[SheridanCat]

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Should the whole pot be awarded to my opponent or should it be chopped?

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What the hell? Why is this question being asked? Both players are playing the board. This is so basic. So, so basic.

You tabled your hand and said you're playing the board. This is simple.

[Teetster]

It would be incredibly stupud for the floor to award Mr. 22 the whole pot. There is NO concievable hand he can beat. The absolute best he could do was split.

Thanks - Brian