5/10 KK hand against Facial_Hair - Page 2

IRV · #11 08-24-2006, 07:10 PM

Perfectly played IMO.

Triumph36 · #12 08-24-2006, 07:48 PM

If you raise to 175, you are going to get crushed with your smaller overpairs and worse hands that you're 3 betting with. If you 3 bet less often, your range is too small and it's incredibly easy for TAGs to fold to your 3 bets and you get no action. Granted, FH probably calls these with a wide range even OOP, but raising to 175 is simply absurd.

55 is not advantageous for set value alone. Sometimes you should be raising with 87s and A4s here as well. Sometimes when he hits his set it will only win him a c-bet - sometimes he will also be overset. It's amazing you can play this high and make this fundamental mistake.

I agree that betting the flop is unnecessary, but were we to do it, betting smaller is way better.

thedustbustr · #13 08-24-2006, 07:55 PM

twp - i think your premise to raise to 175 is fundamentally flawed - by a bastardized version of your thinking, we should just straight out open KK to $200, because we don't want 55 to have set odds. and god forbid if we are deep.

Moonshine · #14 08-24-2006, 08:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you are FH with 55 preflop, do you call your re-raise or do you fold? if you call (and I would) that indicates that calling is +EV. that indicates that your re-raise is too small (and it is). Postflop I would check. If you're ahead, he probably has 2 outs at most, and if you're behind, you want your free shot at your 4-6 outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling this reraise with 55 is retarded. you cant call just for set value since hero isnt just reraising with big pairs obviously and sometimes even when you do flop a set he can get away from his hand (as we see here).

in order for calling with 5's to be profitable you would have to take down the pot a fair amount of time you miss your hand which is going to be difficult to do, since pretty much every flop not containing a 5 in it sucks for 55.

just light 100 dollars on fire next time.

TheWorstPlayer · #15 08-24-2006, 08:23 PM

meh. the point is when it is so close for you to be able to cut out implied odds there is no point to do so. not that you should re-raise to 200K if you are sitting with 1 million. sorry, i'm not expressing myself clearly.

gergery · #16 08-24-2006, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you are FH with 55 preflop, do you call your re-raise or do you fold? if you call (and I would) that indicates that calling is +EV. that indicates that your re-raise is too small (and it is). Postflop I would check. If you're ahead, he probably has 2 outs at most, and if you're behind, you want your free shot at your 4-6 outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you'd prefer your opponent to fold a hand like 55 that is way behind when he's out of position here? cause that's what you are implying by saying his call of the $135 is EV+.

-g

Triumph36 · #17 08-24-2006, 08:42 PM

gergery - no, it's obviously +EV, given that your hand is face up as KK, (even though this is the third time Hero has done this), and you're stacking off on any board, including AQ5.

The only reason I would raise a little more here is because you have a big hand and FH probably wants to take a stand eventually. I will not be raising to 175.

TheWorstPlayer · #18 08-24-2006, 08:43 PM

I will raise many hands to 175. Don't worry about my not getting action with kings, lol.

Lefort · #19 08-24-2006, 10:53 PM

I think RRing to 3.5x in position and 4x OOP is fine.

TWP, you seem to be assuming that every time villain flops a set, they are felting HERO. If villain is calling a raise to $135 purely for implied set odds against a HERO 3betting often enough, they are making a big mistake. HERO wins a good pot 7 out of 8 times, and the other time they get felted *sometimes* for when they actually RRd a premium hand.

How stupid do you feel as villain here if HERO RRs, you call with 55, flop comes AK3, HERO CB's and takes it down, and shows 87s?

This is why I think having a wider 3betting range is very important for 6m.

TheWorstPlayer · #20 08-24-2006, 11:02 PM

I have a plenty wide range as anyone who has played with me knows. I also re-raise bigger than most people. I think this is better. This is because it places a lot more pressure on the raiser. Guys love to raise wide ranges. They also love to call small re-raises in position. Now you're playing a big pot, out of position, often with total trash. And if you DO continuation bet and take it down, it's smaller than it could have been.

When I re-raise preflop, I WANT to take it down preflop. This is because I usually do not have a premium hand. And if I don't take it down preflop, I WANT to take it down on the flop. When people call my re-raises and then fold the flop, they are paying a fortune. And I'm not costing myself too much to win too little because I'm only really paying a marginal amount more than other people (175 instead of 135, for example) which doesn't require that they fold that much more often and I'll adjust my range agaisnt each person so that when they DO decide to take a stand (which happens a lot faster against my bigger raises) I am more likely to have a monster.

I would honestly love to hear either a cogent argument or a mathematical basis for why 175 is not better than 135 here, since many of you seem to feel strongly that this is the case. It's not like I'm suggesting 350, people.