Jason Varitek

[andyfox]

I think both you and Sublime make insightful points.

The sport's greatest dynasty involved three great defensive catchers (who could also hit): Bill Dickey, Yogi Berra and Elston Howard. It may not be coincidental that the franchise recovered only when they got another smart and talented catcher (Thurman Munson) and then again when Posada developed. Casey Stengel, when asked why he was suddenly successful as a manager in New York when he had failed elsewhere, replied that he never played a big game with "my man." By whom he meant not Dimaggio, and not Mantle, but Berra. Ted Williams said the Yankees were a great team because Yogi Berra was the smartest player in the game.

Anecdotal? Sure. But it makes sense that the Red Sox pitchers don't pitch as well as they would with an obviously baseball-smart and savvy Varitek behind the plate. It's a much bigger loss to the Sox than, say, the loss of their left-fielder was to the Yankees.

That said, the Red Sox just don't have anyone throwing well out of the pen except for Papelbon. And, as Sublime points out, they're short of quality starting pitching as well, and they've had to play Detroit and New York. The Red Sox's record is far better than any wild card contender in the NL, it just so happens that there are five good teams in the AL this year competing for the three non-western division playoff spots.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Casey Stengel, when asked why he was suddenly successful as a manager in New York when he had failed elsewhere, replied that he never played a big game with "my man." By whom he meant not Dimaggio, and not Mantle, but Berra. Ted Williams said the Yankees were a great team because Yogi Berra was the smartest player in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is great stuff Andy, thanks for sharing it.

[crockpot]

i think it's clear from the team's 2004 results what doug mientkiewicz meant to the hitters and pitchers. how did they ever let him get away?

[junglewarfare]

getting injured in the final stretch of the season when your team is only 1 game ahead of their rival is soooo not clutch.

[hedxcold]

[ QUOTE ]
I heard this clip from Paplebom about a week ago. Interviewer: Jonathon, have you ever shaken off Varitek?
Paplebom: Of course I have. Once. And so and so took me deep.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe varitek just told so and so what pitch was coming

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
i think it's clear from the team's 2004 results what doug mientkiewicz meant to the hitters and pitchers. how did they ever let him get away?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[cdxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I heard this clip from Paplebom about a week ago. Interviewer: Jonathon, have you ever shaken off Varitek?
Paplebom: Of course I have. Once. And so and so took me deep.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe varitek just told so and so what pitch was coming

[/ QUOTE ]

looking at this season's game log (assuming it wasn't last season), it appears to be Jermaine Dye. wild guess, Papelbon wanted to throw a fastball to Dye.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
The sport's greatest dynasty involved three great defensive catchers (who could also hit): Bill Dickey, Yogi Berra and Elston Howard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not surprising that teams who could hold onto catchers who can hit this well would be successful. A good hitting catcher (who doesnt suck defensively) is the single most valuable asset to a MLB team. The reason they are so valuable is because when you lose one (varitek) they are almost always replaced with far inferior players (mirrabelli/lopez). However, it has been proven thru research that the influences on pitching staffs via a catcher is unproveable (or more likely, nonexistent).

since varitek has been a shell of himself this year at the plate, losing 'that' bat wasnt as big a deal as losing him in 03-05 would have been.

I am not aruging that catchers are not important, quite the opposite actually. Just they are not important for the reasons being listed.

[ QUOTE ]
Casey Stengel, when asked why he was suddenly successful as a manager in New York when he had failed elsewhere, replied that he never played a big game with "my man."

[/ QUOTE ]

or managing horrible teams perhaps? i find it silly to assume a managers winning % would jump 200 points higher because he had a smart catcher.

[ QUOTE ]
But it makes sense that the Red Sox pitchers don't pitch as well as they would with an obviously baseball-smart and savvy Varitek behind the plate.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe to some microscopic degree, but thats about all ill agree with.

fans who hoist varitek up as some huge influence on pitching staffs almost never have any evidence to prove it and ignore guys like matt clement/josh beckett, the dozens of failed relievers etc....who just dont perform to the level projected for them when aquired.

[crockpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think it's clear from the team's 2004 results what doug mientkiewicz meant to the hitters and pitchers. how did they ever let him get away?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

the team was reeling when they got minky. they trade for him and go on a huge run, then win the world series. now he's gone and they haven't played at the same level since.

i don't see how blaming that on mientkiewicz is different than saying the loss of varitek directly translates into this big a difference in performance. teams go through slumps, especially against the best teams in the league. it's not always because one guy happens to not be there.

[crockpot]

[ QUOTE ]
A good hitting catcher (who doesnt suck defensively) is the single most valuable asset to a MLB team. The reason they are so valuable is because when you lose one (varitek) they are almost always replaced with far inferior players (mirrabelli/lopez).

[/ QUOTE ]

you wouldn't believe how many people argue that catchers are actually worth less because the dropoff is so big when they get hurt. this is especially true in fantasy baseball.