Pocket 4's in BB, flopped set

[Shillx]

I see no reason to call on the river.

[cold_cash]

If I'm reading the action right, there are 2 players between us and the pre-flop raiser. There is only player between the pre-flop raiser and us (the small blind).

If we bet we might get a call from those to our left. I think a check-raise will pretty often lead to us playing heads up.

[hizo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
flop is def a bet-3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop comments seem to be split between bet out and c/r. I'm going to throw my vote into c/r. With the pfr two to my left I want him to cb and then hopefully trap the field for two bets (other than the guy between us). If we bet out and he raises and gets up heads up I can three bet, but I think there is more value in the c/r.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with a flop CR. If checked to the PF bettor will bet, most likely most of the field will call, and our raise will trap a lot of players. This is fine if we were interested in building the pot.

However, since the pot is already large, we want to at least try protect our set against a variety of gutshot straight draws out there that threaten our hand. Betting out and having the PF raiser raise would at least attempt to accomplish this. If the PF raiser just calls, this is fine too... we couldn't have protected our hand by just check raising anyways...

I guess what I'm trying to say is for this large pot
1) Priority number one is having some of the field face 2-cold in order to protect against gutshots, best accomplished here by betting out and hoping PF raiser raises our bet.
2) If we can't protect, we bet and then bet more for value.

[hizo]

Also, given that sometimes we won't be able to protect, a bet-3bet builds the pot quite nicely, and most importantly we don't risk giving a free card in this position.

[MN_Mime]

I think this is just wrong.

Do you appreciate how strong a set is? Even if the 4.5:1 random gutshots come in on the turn, you still have 10 outs (barring any flopped two pair hand), respectively, to redraw. You are a huge favorite and trapping the field is exactly what you want to do since you can't fold them anyway. "Protecting" is a silly notion here.

You're somewhat lucky to get the opportunity to 3-bet the flop, but you freeze out the PFR who is almost certainly way behind and going to have a hard time releasing his hand which is now drawing. I think going for an overcall will win you more money with this action.

The stage is set for the pre-flop raiser to lead with a continuation bet and even if he missed with AK, someone later in the action is going to have a Q or J and deny a free card. By checking you might get lucky and have PFR bet and get a late position raise, in which case you can decide whether a 3-bet serves your purposes better or to continue to disguise your strength until a more expensive street.

[MrWookie]

Horrendous.

Not capping that river is a crime.

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
Horrendous.

Not capping that river is a crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you referring to his play or my recommendations? It's hard to tell.

I think he needs to get more bets in, but he's done little to make that possible. I think he needs to pop on the turn and river, but he can count on other players to bet for him. If he lets villain bet the turn and just smooth calls, he keep PFR and can donk the river. If he bets the turn he immediately puts PFR to the test because there's a live villain behind him.

[MrWookie]

My reply is to OP.

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian seems solid. Doesn't do anything out of the ordinary

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
MP2 raises, Villian calls,

[/ QUOTE ]

i might have to update my notes on villian.

i don't slow down on the river either.

i suck at poker tho, so take that w/ a grain of salt.

[Langerz]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm reading the action right,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are reading it wrong. The villian isn't the pfr.