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#11
08-15-2006, 11:13 AM
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Re: Flop
[ QUOTE ]
I think you can find out for cheaper if he has AA or KK by betting $130. [/ QUOTE ] I 100% hate this, checking is so much better and I don't even think this is close. Remember, this is against a player who min-raised with all those callers and then flat called the extra $80. What sort of player do you think this is? And how do you find out if they have those hands? Most of these players can't lay down TT here and may even get twitchy and push a flop bet. It's far better to check IMO, but maybe I am very quick to judge players based on PF action like that - just as I rate all short-stackers as fish unless they show otherwise (which happens about once a month). 
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#12
08-15-2006, 11:16 AM
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Re: Flop
Once he calls the preflop 3 bet of $100 we have to put him on a range of hands. Most likely holdings are AA, KK and AK. All of which have us beat on this flop. He may also have 99-JJ but it is less likely.
We have position in this hand and we should use it to gain information. I hate checking the flop because we dont gain anything from it. It harms us in that a worse hand can bet the turn and push us of the hand. We must bet the flop and i think 130-170 is a good amount on this board because we are likely to be beaten if called. If raised we obviously fold and if we are called we will check behind on the turn and fold to any river aggression.
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#13
08-15-2006, 11:27 AM
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Re: Flop
[ QUOTE ]
Once he calls the preflop 3 bet of $100 we have to put him on a range of hands. Most likely holdings are AA, KK and AK. All of which have us beat on this flop. He may also have 99-JJ but it is less likely. We have position in this hand and we should use it to gain information. I hate checking the flop because we dont gain anything from it. It harms us in that a worse hand can bet the turn and push us of the hand. We must bet the flop and i think 130-170 is a good amount on this board because we are likely to be beaten if called. If raised we obviously fold and if we are called we will check behind on the turn and fold to any river aggression. [/ QUOTE ] I still don't get why we should bet this flop. I mean, we would need to put in a big chunk of our stack, just to make him play better. We won't fold out a better hand and there is not much need for protection. Not to mention worst case, where we get pushed off of the best hand. We don't have much, but we have a hint that he's aggressive. Why not give him some rope?
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#14
08-15-2006, 11:29 AM
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Re: Flop
[ QUOTE ]
Once he calls the preflop 3 bet of $100 we have to put him on a range of hands. Most likely holdings are AA, KK and AK. All of which have us beat on this flop. He may also have 99-JJ but it is less likely. [/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where villain is 55/30??? I wouldn't be surprised to see 55 or ATs here. Guys like this hate folding after they raise, and always put you on AK. After this flop, they change their read to AQ. I agree with FGators, 130 probably has the same effect on the flop unless he's really aggro. NT
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#15
08-15-2006, 11:31 AM
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Re: Flop
[ QUOTE ]
Once he calls the preflop 3 bet of $100 we have to put him on a range of hands. Most likely holdings are AA, KK and AK. All of which have us beat on this flop. He may also have 99-JJ but it is less likely. We have position in this hand and we should use it to gain information. I hate checking the flop because we dont gain anything from it. It harms us in that a worse hand can bet the turn and push us of the hand. We must bet the flop and i think 130-170 is a good amount on this board because we are likely to be beaten if called. If raised we obviously fold and if we are called we will check behind on the turn and fold to any river aggression. [/ QUOTE ] I find this fascinating. To me this is an obvious check against this player, and I mean REALLY obvious, but it seems nobody else agrees so maybe I suck even more than I previously thought. I don't even understand the value in putting up to $170 in (out of $280 left) for information.....
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#16
08-15-2006, 11:33 AM
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Re: Flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Once he calls the preflop 3 bet of $100 we have to put him on a range of hands. Most likely holdings are AA, KK and AK. All of which have us beat on this flop. He may also have 99-JJ but it is less likely. [/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where villain is 55/30??? I wouldn't be surprised to see 55 or ATs here. Guys like this hate folding after they raise, and always put you on AK. After this flop, they change their read to AQ. I agree with FGators, 130 probably has the same effect on the flop unless he's really aggro. NT [/ QUOTE ] He's 55/30 over 17 hands, cmon.
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#17
08-15-2006, 11:34 AM
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Re: Flop
fwiw i check too.
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#18
08-15-2006, 11:35 AM
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Re: Flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Once he calls the preflop 3 bet of $100 we have to put him on a range of hands. Most likely holdings are AA, KK and AK. All of which have us beat on this flop. He may also have 99-JJ but it is less likely. [/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where villain is 55/30??? I wouldn't be surprised to see 55 or ATs here. Guys like this hate folding after they raise, and always put you on AK. After this flop, they change their read to AQ. I agree with FGators, 130 probably has the same effect on the flop unless he's really aggro. NT [/ QUOTE ] He's 55/30 over 17 hands, cmon. [/ QUOTE ] People who minreraise OOP preflop are disproportionately more likely to have cheese here. He can also easily play premiums this way but it's only part of his range. NT
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#19
08-15-2006, 11:41 AM
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Re: Flop
If he has TT and calls $130 he will likely be loose passive and check the turn and it will get us one step closer to show down.
A lot of these guys if we check the flop will fire the turn and we will have no idea where to go. $130 on the flop and checking behind the turn for pot control if he calls, then checks is the way to go and the easiest way to play this hand for us.
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#20
08-15-2006, 11:42 AM
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Re: Flop
The primary reason i bet this flop is to control it. If we check flop and then he fires out a 1/2 pot bet on the turn what do we do? We have the initiative by 3 betting pre, by checking behind we leave ourselves open to a big bet on the turn where we would ne folding the best hand alot of the time.
It is of course player dependant as to whether we think he has the heart to bet out the turn hard with a worse hand than QQ. I think posters in this thread are split as to whether to check or bet because we have no information on the player. 17 hands is not enough to draw any conclusion so we play the hand as if he was an unknown and for me...that would be to bet this flop and find out where we stand for better or for worse.
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