AQo - Top Two vs. Maniac et al.

[SixForty]

[ QUOTE ]
seems like an easy 3bet sierra.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured it was an easy 3bet, which I did, but it was more a question of how far you go after that.

If UTG folds and UTG+2 goes to 4bets, being that it's now heads up with no cap, do you go to 5 here? Or are you happy enough that it's heads up and you just call down from that point?

If UTG calls, and UTG+2 still goes to 4bets, are you leading the river?

[foureightsuited]

[ QUOTE ]
and was still stacking my chips from last hand!


[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the chip stacking tell mike caro, thanks

[SixForty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and was still stacking my chips from last hand!


[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the chip stacking tell mike caro, thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

hehehe - it's true. I'm an open book at the table for almost anyone who wants to try and read me. Thankfully, almost none of them do! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
(Note: I had been raising preflop a whole ton, so the preflop check was to change things up for deception purposes)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're raising that much preflop, you don't have to do this.

However, this looks like a good game to go for limp reraises from EP.

This looks more like a LAG(postflop LAG, at that) than a Maniac. There is a difference.

I'd 3 bet the turn since UTG2's range is so wide. Watch out if UTG caps. UTG2 caps, then maybe just check call the river.

b

[SixForty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(Note: I had been raising preflop a whole ton, so the preflop check was to change things up for deception purposes)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're raising that much preflop, you don't have to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious as to why you say that. I guess I figured that if I hit my A, nobody would put me on that big of a kicker and I'd get more action. Maybe not needed at this point!

[ QUOTE ]
However, this looks like a good game to go for limp reraises from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, what makes you say that?

[ QUOTE ]
This looks more like a LAG(postflop LAG, at that) than a Maniac. There is a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was definitely more of a maniac than a LAG, although it was entirely postflop. He went to 5bets heads up on the river with bottom pair only against the tightest player at the table who obviously just rivered the nut straight. (But I think this may have happened later in the session, so I didn't include it in the original read) And a couple of times he'd raise the river, then when called he's just muck, obviously bluffing. I think he leaned closer to the maniac side of things than just a super-LAG.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 3 bet the turn since UTG2's range is so wide. Watch out if UTG caps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - if UTG capped, I was calling the turn and check-folding the river UI. He'd never cap the turn without a fullhouse or better.

[ QUOTE ]
UTG2 caps, then maybe just check call the river

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was originally planning - didn't know if maybe there was still value in another bet somewhere.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
If UTG folds and UTG+2 goes to 4bets, being that it's now heads up with no cap, do you go to 5 here?

[/ QUOTE ]

given his description(assuming we don't think he'll just up and fold), yes i go to 5 and call down from there UI.

[ QUOTE ]
If UTG calls, and UTG+2 still goes to 4bets, are you leading the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG is certainly the one i would be worried about if he calls or wakes up. his action is really the crux of what i do after the 3bet(if he stays it changes everything). on the river if i 3bet the turn and they both just called, i guess i would valuebet. if i 3bet and UTG calls and goofass makes it 4bets i would just calldown at that point UI.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(Note: I had been raising preflop a whole ton, so the preflop check was to change things up for deception purposes)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're raising that much preflop, you don't have to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious as to why you say that. I guess I figured that if I hit my A, nobody would put me on that big of a kicker and I'd get more action. Maybe not needed at this point!



[/ QUOTE ]

Not a bad idea, but if you're raising alot out of your BB in some multiway pots with a wide enough range,(KQs, JTs-for lots of limpers) they'll won't think huge hand right away much less about your kicker. Most Ax will call you anyways if you flop an A.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, this looks like a good game to go for limp reraises from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, what makes you say that?



[/ QUOTE ]

Your description of the table and how it plays preflop:

Live 10/20 game - very loose/very aggressive, most pots 5-7 people, about half of them raised preflop,


[ QUOTE ]
He was definitely more of a maniac than a LAG, although it was entirely postflop. He went to 5bets heads up on the river with bottom pair only against the tightest player at the table who obviously just rivered the nut straight. (But I think this may have happened later in the session, so I didn't include it in the original read) And a couple of times he'd raise the river, then when called he's just muck, obviously bluffing. I think he leaned closer to the maniac side of things than just a super-LAG.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I reread the OP(not used to that good a description [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), he could be just a postflop maniac. Which is likely.

b

[SixForty]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. When I 3bet the turn, it just started to feel like I was getting deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of spewing.

Turned out to be a fantastic move, as UTG folded the nut flush draw, fearing one of us had a full house already. Maniac 4bet it, I called planning on check/calling unless I boat up. River was a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I couldn't remember which one) and I checked. Maniac then decided to muck his hand right there. UTG was a little bit upset! I showed him my top two and kinda apologized, saying I had to protect my hand if I could. No one has any idea what Maniac had in that hand!

Needless to say, the next couple of hours were loads of fun!!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the advice everyone. When I 3bet the turn, it just started to feel like I was getting deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of spewing.

Turned out to be a fantastic move, as UTG folded the nut flush draw, fearing one of us had a full house already. Maniac 4bet it, I called planning on check/calling unless I boat up. River was a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I couldn't remember which one) and I checked. Maniac then decided to muck his hand right there. UTG was a little bit upset! I showed him my top two and kinda apologized, saying I had to protect my hand if I could. No one has any idea what Maniac had in that hand!

Needless to say, the next couple of hours were loads of fun!!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. He really thought you had QQ or AA after not raising preflop? Maybe A7 or Q7, I guess. On top of that, he put a maniac on that possibility?

b

[SixForty]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. He really thought you had QQ or AA after not raising preflop? On top of that, he put a maniac on that possibility? He should be upset at that hand. At himself for folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was pretty upset at himself! I think he convinced himself that I had A7 or Q7 (since I did get in for free) I know that he views me as a pretty solid player, and since I bet and raised every single chance I had postflop, I don't think he realized that I was playing faster simply because I was against the maniac.

I can't really fault him for his play (I mean, how often do you cold-call two on a paired board on the turn, trying to hit a flush?) I just don't think he looked at the next level of thinking as to why I might be doing what I was doing.