Politics Forum

[Howard Beale]

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I mean, come one....you had people from OOT saying "damn, them freaks are crazzzy"...

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But that's just the point. Look what people DO because of politics. Crazy isn't the word for it and some form of 'crazy' is unavoidably going to come out in talking politics.

[LinusKS]

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For instance whether the Israeli response was too strong is a fair topic, just like whether Hezbolah imbeds itself among civilians causing civiliain casulties is also a fair topic.


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I've never understood this approach to shifting the blame for civilian casualties. It's as if its proponents expect Hezbolah (or Iraqi insurgents, or whoever), to gather themselves together in an open field somewhere, so the bombers can get a clear shot at them.

[Elevens]

Open the forum and so we can move the political posts from TLDR. If they're not in a Politics forum, they'll find their home somewhere else. There's really no way of avoiding it.

It's ugly and often childish, but with mods like <font color="green">[censored]</font>, it should remain under control.

[iron81]

Mason, I encourage you to stop by the TLDR Political threads that Mat and the TLDR mods have agreed to allow, particularly the Minimum Wage/Estate Tax thread. I think they prove that Politics can work at 2+2.

In addition, I echo Howard Beale's assertions that if people are distorting the facts, then they need to be corrected, not silenced. This occurs all the time in the Strat forums when someone miscalculats pot odds or outs.

Also, I disagree with your analysis concerning how bad things were in Politics. But since I don't think I can convince you other wise I won't expand.

Edit for HLMencken: I wish I had the stones that HLMencken did, but I was trying to be diplomatic. He speaks a lot of trut, but I think us Politards are going to have to get used to OOT being allowed to get away with more because they drive a lot more traffic to 2+2 than politics.

[HLMencken]

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But first we need to make sure that everything has calmed down and the posting can resume in a civil and courteous manner.

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Crock o' crap. The mods handling of this and your blatant condescension as demonstrated above is the only thing that has everyone fired up. Politics was as civil and courteous as most other forums. And if someone isn't, then simply ban them or lock the thread just as any other forum. Making this claim that it was so unruly is an incredibly lame alibi for the truth of the matter, and does little to calm everything down.

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What we will not tolerate... posts, which are sometimes very politely written, that distort facts, create new facts, make references to very bad things that the poster quickly distances himself from but nevertheless leaves the idea out there, and often link to other sites that are clearly hate sites.

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This is ridiculous. Who decides what is not factual, what is hateful, etc? The forum has gone just fine allowing posters to counter stupid and hateful views rather than shutting everyone out. If you want to fight hate, do it with reason... which is what most posters in politics already were doing in a very proactive and through manner.

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Our concern at Two Plus Two is that we have many young people (that is young compared to me) reading these boards who do not know or understand the history, and who could be misled down the road to hatred.

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More crock o' crap. I was just reading a thread in OOT bragging about fighting, including knife fights, which is currently getting 10x the views by impressionable young people than any post ever made in Politics. Get off the high horse because it is sinking in manure...

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Everyone needs to keep in mind that two+two is a site designed to discuss poker and other forms of gambling. We are not designed nor do we have the capabilities to handle these other subjets as well as some other sites on the Internet. Thus if we error, we plan to error on the conservative side ...

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Well, when it comes to poltical debate that you find distasteful. Knife fights, soft core porn, degrading women, cheating at school... you name it, it goes here... except don't criticize Israel.

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... this forum will not be a breeding ground for hatred.

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When an objectionable post could easily be deleted, locked, banned, etc., and when the objectionable post receives many well thought out rebuttals, I would hardly characterize it as a breeding ground for hate. Dodge, duck, dive, dodge...

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... we will wait until we feel that everything has calmed down. Expect to see it back up around the middle of August.

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Everything on 2+2 has calmed down or everything in Israel has calmed down? Your comments suggest the latter, which makes this whole post of yours a joke since you claim political discussion is fine including the Middle East events if non-hateful. So why not open the forum now and moderate it... again, like any other forum? WHY NOT????? Because this whole thread is b.s., that's why.

Best wishes,
HLMencken

P.S. FWIW, I don't care much about the current Mid East crisis and don't believe I have ever agreed with Cyrus on anything. But that's the whole point--what made politics fun to read was seeing all sides, even sides I don't agree with. Which is a better learning environment, a holdem forum where one guru disseminates the right way to play every hand, or a forum where a lot of posters give different takes--some "wrong"--but the vigorous debnate sheds more light on different facets of the hand in question? You should know as well as anyone the answer to this question, of course, as it is the principle 2+2 is built on. The same principle applies to political debate.

P.P.S. Yeah I said I was leaving but came back... I love reality (train wreck) TV.

[PITTM]

old people who are confident they know history when they dont are far far far worse than kids who just dont know what theyre talking about. the politics forum is just FILLED with people who are like entrenched in their political position and refuse to move no matter what the evidence. the forum isnt a place to advance propaganda for ones party over and over and should probably contain some facts or information, which usually doesnt happen.

rj

[By-Tor]

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But first we need to make sure that everything has calmed down and the posting can resume in a civil and courteous manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crock o' crap. The mods handling of this and your blatant condescension as demonstrated above is the only thing that has everyone fired up. Politics was as civil and courteous as most other forums. And if someone isn't, then simply ban them or lock the thread just as any other forum. Making this claim that it was so unruly is an incredibly lame alibi for the truth of the matter, and does little to calm everything down.

[ QUOTE ]
What we will not tolerate... posts, which are sometimes very politely written, that distort facts, create new facts, make references to very bad things that the poster quickly distances himself from but nevertheless leaves the idea out there, and often link to other sites that are clearly hate sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is ridiculous. Who decides what is not factual, what is hateful, etc? The forum has gone just fine allowing posters to counter stupid and hateful views rather than shutting everyone out. If you want to fight hate, do it with reason... which is what most posters in politics already were doing in a very proactive and through manner.

[ QUOTE ]
Our concern at Two Plus Two is that we have many young people (that is young compared to me) reading these boards who do not know or understand the history, and who could be misled down the road to hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]

More crock o' crap. I was just reading a thread in OOT bragging about fighting, including knife fights, which is currently getting 10x the views by impressionable young people than any post ever made in Politics. Get off the high horse because it is sinking in manure...

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone needs to keep in mind that two+two is a site designed to discuss poker and other forms of gambling. We are not designed nor do we have the capabilities to handle these other subjets as well as some other sites on the Internet. Thus if we error, we plan to error on the conservative side ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when it comes to poltical debate that you find distasteful. Knife fights, soft core porn, degrading women, cheating at school... you name it, it goes here... except don't criticize Israel.

[ QUOTE ]
... this forum will not be a breeding ground for hatred.

[/ QUOTE ]

When an objectionable post could easily be deleted, locked, banned, etc., and when the objectionable post receives many well thought out rebuttals, I would hardly characterize it as a breeding ground for hate. Dodge, duck, dive, dodge...

[ QUOTE ]
... we will wait until we feel that everything has calmed down. Expect to see it back up around the middle of August.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything on 2+2 has calmed down or everything in Israel has calmed down? Your comments suggest the latter, which makes this whole post of yours a joke since you claim political discussion is fine including the Middle East events if non-hateful. So why not open the forum now and moderate it... again, like any other forum? WHY NOT????? Because this whole thread is b.s., that's why.

Best wishes,
HLMencken

P.S. FWIW, I don't care much about the current Mid East crisis and don't believe I have ever agreed with Cyrus on anything. But that's the whole point--what made politics fun to read was seeing all sides, even sides I don't agree with. Which is a better learning environment, a holdem forum where one guru disseminates the right way to play every hand, or a forum where a lot of posters give different takes--some "wrong"--but the vigorous debnate sheds more light on different facets of the hand in question? You should know as well as anyone the answer to this question, of course, as it is the principle 2+2 is built on. The same principle applies to political debate.

P.P.S. Yeah I said I was leaving but came back... I love reality (train wreck) TV.

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See what I mean? Jussssst a bit high-strung there dude...

[HLMencken]

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See what I mean? Jussssst a bit high-strung there dude...

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No, I don't see what you mean.. did you ever post there or is your reply here supposed to be meaningful discourse "OOT style"? Yeah, we need lots more of that...

[iron81]

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See what I mean? Jussssst a bit high-strung there dude...

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Although I agree with HLMencken, this was funny.

[Sniper]

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So why not open the forum now and moderate it... again, like any other forum?

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It is worth noting at this point, that not all forums on 2+2 are moderated the same...