Josh Arieh: "Biggest mistake amateurs make"

[Shoe]

And here, all this time, I thought that the biggest mistake an amateur could make, was listening to Josh Arieh [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MikeLowry]

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AK is not a drawing hand.


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Hahahahahahahahahahahahah


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It's kind of asinine to respond to a post in this manner.

Especially when you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain your implication that AK is not a drawing hand.

-ML

[Banks2334]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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AK is not a drawing hand.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahah

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It's kind of asinine to respond to a post in this manner.

Especially when you're wrong.

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Many players consider A-K to be a drawing hand. You don't have anything unless you hit it. It is one of the most overplayed hands in No Limit. Doyle Brunson writes in SS2 that he considrs A-K to be a drawing hand, so I guess he would be wrong too.

[Thremp]

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So is every non-pocket pair a drawing hand?

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Yes. They aren't "made".

[goochpkt2002]

From SSHE, "For example, many 'poker isn't gambling'people do not like to raise before the flop. they hate risking extra money when the flop will ruin their hand so often. for instance, they might choose never to raise with ace-king. 'i like to see if i make a pair first before i risk any extra money. ace-king is just a draing hand, after all.' they view raising as reckless gambling...Experts do not think this way" (24)!

from pg 52, "with a good top pair hand you should usually raise. a hand like ak wins far more often than most hands."

but i suppose you'd know more thank sklansky and brunson about drawing hands.

[goochpkt2002]

Further, on pg 584 of SS2, Brunson advocates raising with AK from every position, calling reraises and even coming over the top of a reraise in certain situations. I think it's clear that raising with AK against limpers is the move with +EV. In regards to whether it's a drawing hand, we're arguing over language and how such a hand is defined.

[Banks2334]

Your quote talks about people not raising with A-K since it is not a made hand while experts will raise. It doesn't say that experts don't view it as a drawing hand, just that they play it differently. Try reading SS2 where Doyle views A-K as a drawing hand before you say he views it otherwise.

[Dromar]

[ QUOTE ]
From SSHE, "For example, many 'poker isn't gambling'people do not like to raise before the flop. they hate risking extra money when the flop will ruin their hand so often. for instance, they might choose never to raise with ace-king. 'i like to see if i make a pair first before i risk any extra money. ace-king is just a draing hand, after all.' they view raising as reckless gambling...Experts do not think this way" (24)!

from pg 52, "with a good top pair hand you should usually raise. a hand like ak wins far more often than most hands."

but i suppose you'd know more thank sklansky and brunson about drawing hands.

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I'm a bit unsure as to what you're trying to say with this post. Are you saying that AK is a drawing hand, but you should raise anyway, since most likely, everyone else has a "drawing hand" also, but one that' worse than AK?

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
From SSHE, "For example, many 'poker isn't gambling'people do not like to raise before the flop. they hate risking extra money when the flop will ruin their hand so often. for instance, they might choose never to raise with ace-king. 'i like to see if i make a pair first before i risk any extra money. ace-king is just a draing hand, after all.' they view raising as reckless gambling...Experts do not think this way" (24)!

from pg 52, "with a good top pair hand you should usually raise. a hand like ak wins far more often than most hands."

but i suppose you'd know more thank sklansky and brunson about drawing hands.

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SSH is about limit hold 'em, and this thread is about no limit. The advice you quoted really isn't germaine to the discussion at all.

Whether ace-king is a "drawing hand" or "not a drawing hand" truly could not be less relevant. Call it what you want.. it is what it is, ace-king. If you draw conclusions about how to play it based on your classification of it as a "drawing" or a "non-drawing" hand, then you're daft. (FWIW, I think I say that in an SSH footnote somewhere.)

And, FWIW, I agree with Arieh. The biggest error I see amateurs make regularly in deep stack no limit is to play (or, sometimes even worse, to set up but then fold when it's too late) big pots out of position.

[Banks2334]

Straight from the horse's mouth. Thanks Ed.