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#11
07-27-2006, 11:38 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
[ QUOTE ]
i'm with nath. i dont think this has to mean we're beat. [/ QUOTE ] What hands are you gonna see so often here? Other than exactly AQ, there's nothing feasible that I beat. I just don't see him taking this line with anything worse than AQ. And I doubt AQ is so keen to call preflop, tho its possible. Also note that he's leading out not checking. And hes not leading with intention to take the pot down, rather it looks like hes awaiting a big bet from me. 
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#12
07-27-2006, 11:39 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
Pot control is key here, guys. I like nath's plan. I definitely call the turn. Raising the turn has no value. The river will tell the story here methinks.
I guess popping the flop really doesn't have a ton of value either, since this board is semi scary and not a lot of UTG raising hands have legit draws here.
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#13
07-27-2006, 11:41 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
[ QUOTE ]
i'm with nath. i dont think this has to mean we're beat. [/ QUOTE ] So you call the turn and call a river value bet (~2500)?
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#15
07-27-2006, 11:45 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
[ QUOTE ]
Why'd you call the flop then? Seriously, not being an ass, why'd you call here? [/ QUOTE ] Seriously? Because I needed more information. I needed to see if he let up, or started betting harder, or what. When he leads the turn again I got an overwhelming feeling that he was begging to be raised, seeing how much strength I showed pf and how little he was betting.
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#17
07-27-2006, 11:48 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'm with nath. i dont think this has to mean we're beat. [/ QUOTE ] So you call the turn and call a river value bet (~2500)? [/ QUOTE ] Okay, put yourself in villain's shoes here. You have exactly AQ. You get repopped on the flop, you read that as a pocket pair from TT up and AK. You lead the flop, and your opponent shows no strength. You lead the turn. Seems to make sense to me. Now, thinking about this a little more critically than I did originally, he could have the other two kings also, and yes, he might have JJ, QQ, AA. Thinking about this further, would you really lead a set on the flop OOP? No. You'd check and call, intending to set up commitment by villain. Especially after he reraised you preflop. Leading the flop with a set with that preflop action makes almost no sense. It's like Anti-Valuetown.
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#18
07-27-2006, 11:52 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
So basically you called because if he checked, your ahead and if he bets your folding? If you look at his stack he couldn't really bet harder than 1k w/o totally committing himself to the pot, hell 1k pretty much did it anyway. I really dont understand how this hand can be played anyway other than call, push or raise on flop and evaluate from there.
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#19
07-27-2006, 11:56 PM
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Re: A super KK fold
[ QUOTE ]
Pot control is key here, guys. I like nath's plan. I definitely call the turn. Raising the turn has no value. The river will tell the story here methinks. I guess popping the flop really doesn't have a ton of value either, since this board is semi scary and not a lot of UTG raising hands have legit draws here. [/ QUOTE ] How is calling all the way here pot control? You say the river will tell the story. So basically if he pushes his last 2.5k your going to fold your overpair getting 3-1? And if he checks your going to VB your 2.5k and hope for a crying call from aq. This seems unproductive to say the least.
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#20
07-28-2006, 12:02 AM
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Re: A super KK fold
[ QUOTE ]
So basically you called because if he checked, your ahead and if he bets your folding? If you look at his stack he couldn't really bet harder than 1k w/o totally committing himself to the pot, hell 1k pretty much did it anyway. [/ QUOTE ] this would be exactly why this turn bet sucks for our hand.
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