Misplayed JJ? Flopped fullhouse

[bernie]

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Hero raises UTG with JJ.
UTG+1 coldcalls.
SB calls.
BB 3 bets (no notes)
I cap hoping to get the coldcallers out, everyone calls.

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No way you're getting coldcallers out. Maybe if they just limped initially, but not after they've just put 2 bets in. Consider it a value raise, though you're likely behind the BB. If BB had 3 bet from LP after 2 coldcallers, your cap would likely have more value.

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River Q. (non spade). SB bets, BB reraises. I think "AQ possible with A of spades. Nah, he was CRed on turn when flush card hit, also pair on board."


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Your quote seem to indicate more worry about SB. First thing I thought of was BB just caught his Q for a higher boat. He also knows the SB likely has at least the flush. He sees it just as well as you do when he slows down on the turn. He isn't raising that river with just top pair after that turn action. He's now at least beating SB's possible flush...or boat.

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should I have reraised turn to increase my chance in winning the pot? It would have been hard for red QQ to make a call in that spot after a CR and RR.

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You'd like him to fold correctly? He's the guy you want to keep in. He's getting about 13-1 on a 22-1 shot.

You could've raised the flop as they wouldn't put you on a boat. Lots of hands you could raise this flop with. The flush draw would've been in to the end. No one else is really going to call this flop without a piece of it anyways.

Anyways, you played it fine. Sometimes on a roulette table people hit one of their numbers.

b

[bernie]

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River: I would 3bet here. Yeah, it turns out you were behind, but your hand is so strong and the only 2 hands that beat you are so unlikely (especially 55) that I think doing anything but raising is weak here.

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It is weak as long as you completely ignore how the BB played his hand.

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Turn: I think you should pop it after the BB bets. By not raising your are giving up mucho value. Your hand is best here, and the board is now such that your raise will get called by hands containing lone, high s, and a flush will likely jamb the pot with you. Furthermore, the pot is so huge that hands like AA-QQ aren't going to fold here to your raise.

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I do agree with an initial raise here on the turn much more than waking up and 3 betting it after it just got c/r'ed.

b

[bernie]

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You didn't lose enough money on this hand.


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He lost enough. If he caps the turn, and the BB comes out betting on the river if he just calls all that action, is he going to lose more?

b

[bernie]

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i think this is more an example of not trying to the the max from a hand, then a blunder that costs you the pot.


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No blunder cost him the pot.

b

[bernie]

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I agree with the above poster: you didn't lose nearly enough here.

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Including his coldcalling the 2 bets on the river, how is he supposed to have lost more? Maybe 1 more bet if the turn caps (unlikely) and BB bets into him and he calls. Maybe 2 if BB c/r him on the river.

b

[Man of Means]

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He lost enough. If he caps the turn, and the BB comes out betting on the river if he just calls all that action, is he going to lose more?

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This hand probably belongs in a different forum anyway, so let's not argue about it. I would guess more bets would go in but who knows, we don't really have complete player profiles etc.

[belloc]

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I agree with the above poster: you didn't lose nearly enough here.

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Including his coldcalling the 2 bets on the river, how is he supposed to have lost more? Maybe 1 more bet if the turn caps (unlikely) and BB bets into him and he calls. Maybe 2 if BB c/r him on the river.

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Yeah, these are the bets I'm thinking of, I just said it badly. In general, he played the hand a bit too fancy (I'm thinking of the talk about waiting until the river to do his raising), and "not losing enough" is often a euphemism for "slowplayed when you shouldn't have".

Not playing it fast on the flop is alright I guess, but not gassing it on the turn is just silly.

[bernie]

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He lost enough. If he caps the turn, and the BB comes out betting on the river if he just calls all that action, is he going to lose more?

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This hand probably belongs in a different forum anyway, so let's not argue about it. I would guess more bets would go in but who knows, we don't really have complete player profiles etc.

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I don't know. There's a couple different ways to play this throughout the hand.

Looking back through the hand, you can kind of profile the players a bit. Doubtful SB is jamming the flush anymore on the turn with a paired board.

b

[bernie]

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I agree with the above poster: you didn't lose nearly enough here.

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Including his coldcalling the 2 bets on the river, how is he supposed to have lost more? Maybe 1 more bet if the turn caps (unlikely) and BB bets into him and he calls. Maybe 2 if BB c/r him on the river.

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Yeah, these are the bets I'm thinking of, I just said it badly. In general, he played the hand a bit too fancy (I'm thinking of the talk about waiting until the river to do his raising), and "not losing enough" is often a euphemism for "slowplayed when you shouldn't have".

Not playing it fast on the flop is alright I guess, but not gassing it on the turn is just silly.

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I think the turn is a wash with the river, bet-wise. Maybe one bet more.

I think if he's going to raise the turn, raise it initially, but not wake up and 3 bet the checkraise. That could be an action killer given that there's really only one hand he'd really do this with as AKs he'd likely have raised the flop.

I don't think his slowplay was that bad. he just happened to get unlucky to someone who paid 2BBs to hit his 2 outer.

The QQ won the hand, but lost quite a bit longterm in the process to do it.

b

[cgrohman]

I think cold calling on the flop is fine. While you are defintitely missing bets, you don't want to take the lead away from them on the turn. On average, I think calling nets more bets.

I think not raising the turn is a mistake, not because you want to drive them out, but for value. If you can get the SB to call 2 and the BB to call 1, this is a better plan that waiting for the river to raise when there is the possibility it will be checked to you.

Im not good enough to fold this river. However, I think raising is a mistake against anyone but a complete loony. If you 3 bet, the SB should fold. This nets you 1 extra bet from the BB if you are winning and you get re-popped if you are losing.

By just call, you get that same 1 bet from the SB when he overcalls but there is no chance of a re-raise.