Another 25/50 full ring hand

[hit_the_set]

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I mean come on, first of all following through on the flop is not "a second barrel", and secondly, you do realize it's easier to call against someone NOT firing a (real) second barrel, e.g turn, right?


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With all due respect MDMA, I never said following through on the flop qualifies as a "second barrel".I meant a second barrel as in second barrel.

Yes. I do realize this is a profitable call against people who do not fire second barrels. However, I remember playing Gahhh back in the 5/10 NL days on party and he is pretty good IMO and will put you to tough decisions(read: he is very likely to fire a second barrel here!).

edit: I am far from a NIT!

[ggbman]

Actually, i am pretty sure he meant that Gahh is capable firing the turn if he feels you are not very strong and you somehow took that to mean that thought firing the flop qualified as a second barrel.

[MDMA]

Definately not HEK, you are getting a CB from both guys almost all the time, and you should call both all the time. Loose guy because he's gonna RUN YOU OVER if you decide to fold JJ here regularly just because you are afraid of him firing a second barrel (I mean, how profitable are you gonna let his play become, are you gonna fold any non-TP-hand HU 7-handed on the flop to a standard continuation bet just because you are afraid of having to make difficult decisions later in the hand? If that is the case you are not gonna get past a lot of flops out of position against this guy.)

And the second guy because you are a favourite against his range as well as long as he isn't TOO nitty, and, as a bonus, you are gonna have an easy time getting to showdown pretty much all the time, and be able to fold comfortably to any turnbet.

GGBMAN: I was very well aware of the fact that he meant turn all the time; I was just trying to be a bit witty (which failed), because of how backwards the logic is that due to the fact that he's more likely to fire a second barrel you should fold more often on the flop. That is utterly insane.

[etizzle]

i think that makes perfect sense that his willingness to bluff with approximate correct frequency on the turn should make us less willing to call the flop. That said I think we have to call this flop, for the other reasons u stated.

[hit_the_set]

ok you win MDMA [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My comments are very very player dependent!

[MDMA]

Yes it makes sense in the sense of having to face more difficult decisions later on, e.g not getting a free ride to showdown which is what we want, and I clearly said that in my first post ("you do realize it's easier to call against someone NOT firing a (real) second barrel, e.g turn, right"), although that response was a bit misdirected.

I actually didn't think it would be interpreted as it did (which I in retrospect have no problem seeing why it did), e.g that me saying that "him being more likely to fire turn should make you fold more" being utter madness would automatically mean the opposite was true, that him being more likely to fire a second barrel should make you call more.

I expressed myself rather clumsy, so that it sounded like I meant the exact opposite is true; I definately not, it's the other way around, of course. I was instead referring to the other side of the coin as to what this implies, that you in general should fold just because of fear of being bluffed in difficult situations later on in the hand. This is what I meant by utter madness, I not being native english makes me f-k up things like this, causing misunderstandings. Sorry for that, trying my best.

I would only ever recommend that to anyone feeling that their opposition is so much better than themselves that actually making the call would turn out to cost them more money in the long run because of bad decisions later on in the hand, than insta-folding would.

But, that is not of much interest in terms of "optimal poker", as it is just a way for a worse player to minimize his losses, not for a great player to maximize his winnings.

[etizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes it makes sense in the sense of having to face more difficult decisions later on, e.g not getting a free ride to showdown which is what we want, and I clearly said that in my first post ("you do realize it's easier to call against someone NOT firing a (real) second barrel, e.g turn, right"), although that response was a bit misdirected.

I actually didn't think it would be interpreted as it did (which I in retrospect have no problem seeing why it did), e.g that me saying that "him being more likely to fire turn should make you fold more" being utter madness would automatically mean the opposite was true, that him being more likely to fire a second barrel should make you call more.

I expressed myself rather clumsy, so that it sounded like I meant the exact opposite is true; I definately not, it's the other way around, of course. I was instead referring to the other side of the coin as to what this implies, that you in general should fold just because of fear of being bluffed in difficult situations later on in the hand. This is what I meant by utter madness, I not being native english makes me f-k up things like this, causing misunderstandings. Sorry for that, trying my best.

I would only ever recommend that to anyone feeling that their opposition is so much better than themselves that actually making the call would turn out to cost them more money in the long run because of bad decisions later on in the hand, than insta-folding would.

But, that is not of much interest in terms of "optimal poker", as it is just a way for a worse player to minimize his losses, not for a great player to maximize his winnings.

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I thought u might've meant something like this, b/c of course we should be more likely to call against someone who makes everything else easy for us.

on a side note, your not from holland are u? I would pay top dollar from some good MDMA...

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I call against everything but the nittiest of nits.

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[Moonshine]

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Then leading the flop > check/calling flop?

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I think this will certainly make the hand easier for you but it's definitely not the most EV way to play your hand

yep, now i see that 3 people already said that. i suck.