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#11
07-13-2006, 06:57 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
[ QUOTE ]
of course, if i was the bb, i'd call your push with almost any two cards... [/ QUOTE ] This is not a call w/any 2 situation for the big stack. Sure, fine to have a wide calling range there sitting with 12k chips against this pusher. But no matter the size of your stack, there are still implications for calling down with junk. The blinds here do not give you THAT great a percentage boost over a player who still has 8.5xBB and will be somewhat selective and hesitant to push into the dominant stack. Calling w/ any two here as big stack is terribly wrong, I'm afraid. Some poor big stack players might be doing just that, but they're forfeiting equity. Calling with any 2 makes you a sure underdog against OP's range...and even if you win, you don't gain THAT much (since you've burst a bubble that would be very beneficial to you). 
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#12
07-13-2006, 06:58 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
[ QUOTE ]
I used to push this but I'm pretty sure this is a fold now... [/ QUOTE ] Why?
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#13
07-13-2006, 06:59 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] in a situation like this, i push every time. of course, if i was the bb, i'd call your push with almost any two cards... [/ QUOTE ] Would you really call an 8.5BB push with 'almost any two' if you were the BB? I can't imagine that's a good idea... I think I'd rather fold and keep pwning the other short stacks, unless I had a decent hand that I felt comfortable about calling with. Anyone else have thoughts on this? [/ QUOTE ] If I'm big stack here the last thing I want is for the bubble to burst. I'll call with strong hands, but I'm folding even decent-good hands here. [ QUOTE ] I used to push this but I'm pretty sure this is a fold now... [/ QUOTE ] "Now"? What happened from then to now to make you weak-tight? Someone run it through SNGPT, but I'm pretty sure this is +EV push against almost any calling range.
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#14
07-13-2006, 07:00 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
[ QUOTE ]
If she calls and I win, I'm not really guaranteed all that much more money anyways. I'm confused. [/ QUOTE ] doubling up would be huge for you since you'll have enough BB to atleast make some plays to steal the blinds, plus you wont be short stacked. if you dont want this what are you waiting for? theres not many hands that have KJs dominated, keep that in mind. and plus you said BB is TAG anyway, he'll need a decent hand to call this, must push here
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#15
07-13-2006, 07:03 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
[ QUOTE ]
Calling w/ any two here as big stack is terribly wrong, I'm afraid. Some poor big stack players might be doing just that, but they're forfeiting equity. Calling with any 2 makes you a sure underdog against OP's range...and even if you win, you don't gain THAT much (since you've burst a bubble that would be very beneficial to you). [/ QUOTE ] poor phrasing/exaggeration on my part. mea culpa. i call with a slightly wider than normal range, not any two.
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#16
07-13-2006, 07:35 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
Am I missing something here? Why is everyone saying push KJs in the CO with 8.5BB, we aren't that desperate. SNGPT only says this is a good push if biggie is calling 66+,ATs+,AJo+ and the two others are calling TT+,AQs+,AKo, which is far too tight IMO. I might be stupid or something but I fold this in a heartbeat. Yes we're the shortest stack here, but ICM-wise this must be a fold?
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#17
07-13-2006, 07:47 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
Ditto. I think this is a good fold. Do you really expect n00bs to fold AQ/AJ (or 99/88/77)? Hell, I'd call AQo here as big stack.
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#18
07-13-2006, 07:51 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
it's borderline, i would fold this against most opponents. a lot of people who have 7k 4-handed are pretty loose.
what's up with the "trivial push!" "easy shove!" responses?? i don't even need to play with SNGPT to know that this one depends on calling ranges.
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#20
07-13-2006, 08:04 PM
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Re: Pushing into the big stack
This is not an easy or trivial push, no matter what everybody else says. You didn't include the buy-in in your post, but if this is an $11 or $22 I'd fold this in a heartbeat. Your opposition needs to be at least moderately tight to make this profitable, which automatically rules out any small-stakes game I've ever played. Keeping in mind that the big stack can call with KQo, lose, and not even miss the chips, and that if he calls with a range that wide you're losing money making this push, I'd say fold.
ETA: I checked back and noticed that you said the the BB is at least moderately tight, but in his position I'd say that just means that he won't call you with QTo or 22. KQ is still well within a reasonable range, and if it's part of his range, you're in bad shape.
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