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#11
07-06-2006, 01:38 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
Please don't internet yell at me.
I know he didn't call the raise yet. The reraise is very small, which coupled with the limp-reraise line narrows his range to a big pair. When I know what the other player has, it's very easy to bust them when a favorable flop comes out. 
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#12
07-06-2006, 01:42 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
[ QUOTE ]
Please don't internet yell at me. I know he didn't call the raise yet. The reraise is very small, which coupled with the limp-reraise line narrows his range to a big pair. When I know what the other player has, it's very easy to bust them when a favorable flop comes out. [/ QUOTE ] What does it matter if the re-raise is small if the RAISE+RERAISE IS NOT SMALL AT ALL?! It makes no difference at all. And no, even if UTG turned his AA faceup you still can't profitably call preflop with 8d7d. It's impossible to outplay him postflop because he's forcing you to call 500 (which is about 20% of his stack). Thus you're not getting the implied odds necessary with a suited connector. So your assertion that you can 'outplay him postflop' in this situation is utter nonsense. He can show you his AA and tell you he's pushing any flop and you still have to fold even having perfect information about his hand. And of course, once we don't have perfect info about his hand (which we don't) the situation is even worse than the already, factually losing preflop call.
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#13
07-06-2006, 01:45 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
...sorry? I'm giving the original poster my advice on what I would do. I'm truly sorry it's so godawful that you have to get so worked up about it.
EDIT: This came off sounding harsher than I wanted it to. A couple things: I'm not trying to brush off the fact that I was wrong. I'll admit it, I did not acknowledge the stack sizes in this hand, and calling the reraise preflop is incorrect. I was trying to make a point that when a player defines his hand so clearly preflop, I generally like to see the flop so I can play perfectly. But as you said, in this situation it is incorrect. And if I came off sounding like an ass I apologize. But there is a certain hostility in this forum from many people that I think makes it very uncomfortable for a lot of beginners to truly speak their mind when they think it may be wrong.
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#14
07-06-2006, 01:51 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
Not all of your OESD outs are true outs. If a spade comes off, then you *might* be losing to the spade flush. Even if you discount that possibility because of Monsters Under The Bed Syndrome, it'll likely provide a redraw to beat you if any one of them is holding a lone spade.
And early limp was fine, but for goodness sake, fold to the reraise.
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#15
07-06-2006, 01:56 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
Seeing the flop with this hand against this action preflop is really bad.
Fold the flop.
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#17
07-06-2006, 02:01 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
edited my last post
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#19
07-06-2006, 02:29 PM
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Re: 8 outs. Do I need 5 to 1?
[ QUOTE ]
And if I came off sounding like an ass I apologize. But there is a certain hostility in this forum from many people that I think makes it very uncomfortable for a lot of beginners to truly speak their mind when they think it may be wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Everyone goes through this though, so I say flame on and if you say or do something stupid and someone points out the stupidity, no matter how it 'sounds', you should learn from the advice given and not take the flame personally. Everyone gets flamed. It separates the rest from the weak if you can post it and take it, and then ball up and post again. Learn to love the flame.
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