Common situation I've found myself in a lot recently

[Dan Bitel]

Dazarath,

pushing gives you FE. You fold out hands like AQ/67s and maybe even hands you're behind. Plus if you just call, you could fold the best hand on the flop

cbloom,

I've been calling as well (and FWIW, I'm calling here with AA well over 50% of the time too) but I just don't think its +EV. My sample size is pretty small (~12k hands) but I've found that over ~70% of villains reraise a bit lighter than what is seen as standard at lower limits, whether they're good TAGs and are doing it b/c its good play or they'r bad LAGs and doing it for reasons they don't know. The only players that seem not to are the 14/3 and 60/7 type of players.

I'm really really sure you cant call for set odds alone. And floating becomes tricky and expensive, b/c the pots already $50 odd

[Dan Bitel]

Isura,

Yeah, pushings an overbet...but it gives max FE and if you make a PSR, you pretty much gotta call a push and you also gotta stick the money in on all flops. So I think it might be a higher EV to push rather than a PSR, but not too sure really

orange,

how often you calling with the small pairs vs an unknown? What about some who you've seen/suspect of 3betting light?

jam,

as long as you stay outa my games, i'm happy! And whats your plan for 99-JJ on various flops if you just call? If you're 4betting 22-88, how much is it too? What do you do vs a call or a push?

[cbloom]

db, I definitely agree calling with baby pairs for sets is no good if they're mixing it up.

[Dan Bitel]

cbloom, (or any1 really)

so, vs some1 who you know can 3bet light but you have no idea on his frequency of doing it, what PP do you call/4bet/fold?

[Jamougha]

d,

With a medium pair I'm probably trying to get to showdown. If I 4-bet and get called then I'm probably betting a flop with an A or if I hit a set and cf'ing otherwise. I think this is pretty flow-dependent though.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, pushings an overbet...but it gives max FE and if you make a PSR, you pretty much gotta call a push and you also gotta stick the money in on all flops. So I think it might be a higher EV to push rather than a PSR, but not too sure really

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why you want FE. I guess you are assuming that KK-TT type hands will fold, which I guess is good when your range is JJ-99. But a lot of tags will reraise AK-AJ type hands, so you can stack them or just push most low flops and take it down. This seems more +EV than pushing, even when you account for the times that they have a big pair. I don't agree that a reraise commits you to a push, just make it around 60-65.

[bent96]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, pushings an overbet...but it gives max FE and if you make a PSR, you pretty much gotta call a push and you also gotta stick the money in on all flops. So I think it might be a higher EV to push rather than a PSR, but not too sure really

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why you want FE. I guess you are assuming that KK-TT type hands will fold, which I guess is good when your range is JJ-99. But a lot of tags will reraise AK-AJ type hands, so you can stack them or just push most low flops and take it down. This seems more +EV than pushing, even when you account for the times that they have a big pair. I don't agree that a reraise commits you to a push, just make it around 60-65.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I'm saying. I don't understand pushing at all.

Another thing I want to ask, what do you guys think is the most they will fold when you 4 bet?

[ajmargarine]

Well, only have time atm to read the OP. But, a few weeks ago I said one of the biggest differences between NL100 and NL200 was that there was alot more reraising preflop going on. I was told that I was imagining things. Nice to know I'm not crazy. I struggled with this too db.

[orange]

orange,

how often you calling with the small pairs vs an unknown?

-alot. most players are bad and will stack off when i hit a set or sometimes even a lame overpair on a 328 board (99+). a TAG however, will usually not pay off unless he hits hard, which is why i think folding is best vs. tags and rocks.

What about some who you've seen/suspect of 3betting light?

-4betting pf is interesting, maybe try it a few times if you sense your being 3-betted frequently by the same player. calling and seeing a flop is a fine plan as well, just be prepared to make a stand with 99 on a T x x or J x x board or whatever. TELL THOSE NIGGAS TO BACK OFF!

[dazraf69]

What about just limping on the button? If you are calling 3/bets with PP's for set value, then limping and calling a raise seems to serve the same purpose for a cheaper price, either way you are getting paid off by a donk and you wernt getting much out of a good TAG. Limping and floating the flop also gives you an opportunity to steal on the turn in ideal situations. (yes i am suggesting open-limping [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])