What was the biggest mistake made during WWII?

[Utah]

[ QUOTE ]
You are both correct, but I at least like to think that the underlying moral problems people had with some of Hitler's tactics had at least some impact on how things developed.

[/ QUOTE ]So would I. Unfortunately, I dont think it had anything to do with the war. Heck, our partner in Russia was also a huge butcher. If I recall, didnt the U.S. turn back a boat of Jews and didnt the U.S. refuse to bomb the concentration camps when they knew it would save lives.

Also, we were brutal butchers as well. The thing I find the most disturbing about the war was the firebombing of Toyko. After watching 9/11, I cant imagine the U.S. intentionally burning 100,000 civilians in a night.

There is a great book called flyboys and post it with some topics for discussion. I will try and write a review of it next weekend.

[The once and future king]

Germans [censored] up so many times its funny.

Delaying Kursk until the Panther A was introduced is one of my favourites.

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the Germans really screwed up by not detecting the spies operating out of Stalag 13. They had tunnels everywhere, they had a coffee pot that doubled as a radio, and they left the prison camp to execute missions whenever they liked. How is that possible?

[/ QUOTE ]
That William Holden is a very crafty fellow.

[The once and future king]

Oh I allmost forgot.

Battle of Britain. Switching from bombing the RAF to bombing citys.

[poker-penguin]

Biggest Allied mistake - invading Italy. I mean, come on, skinny country, lots of mountains, few north south routes, sounds like a great way in to Europe.

Biggest Axis mistake - Screwing the pooch from the word go on Barbarossa (one massive drive towards Moscow > Hitler's gay ass three pronged attack), believing the hype about the pas de calais invasion, and not allowing the counter attack on D Day because Hitler had to be consulted about all Panzer movements.

All of these were big, but I offer the following as the biggest Axis mistake in WW2 - poor code and cypher security.

The Allies had masses of information about german plans, deployments etc (not just Enigma, I think Magic was almost as important on the Japanese front).

[KanMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Japan: Failing to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative
Germans: Failing to give up the beachheads in france and launch a counter attack instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Japan actually did not fail to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative. Going into the Pearl Harbor invasion, Japan knew with a successful strike, that they would be able to control the Pacific for 6 full months, with uncertainty looming thereafter. As a matter of fact, Japan did control the Pacific, for almost exactly six months, taking over almost all of Asia, and building a huge perimeter defense. It was their demolition at Midway (where I don't believe they should have even engaged battle in), which lead to their demise.

The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.

The Germans largest mistakes were: 1)their inability to deal with the Allied powers codebreaking abilities (Great Britains was called Ultra I believe, I forget the name of the U.S. codebreakers) and radar capabilities, 2) getting duped by the Allies on D-Day, and 3)committing the majority of their defense on the Western front instead of the East.

1) Codebreaking and radar: the German U-boats were a HUGE threat in the Atlantic Ocean and they could have curtailed the unparalled amount of U.S. production of war supplies being exported to Britain, but the U-Boats were basically snuffed out. Codebreaking also allowed the Allied sources to be prepared for German counterattacks. For instance, Eisenhower caught hold of Hitler's surprize attack in the Battle of Normandy via Ultra, and without getting into specifics, was able to drive the Germans all the way back to the Siegfried Line without a major battle for France.

2) There were two highly likely landing spots for the Allied Forces on D-Day: Normandy and Pas-de-Calais. The Allied created a deception plan, called Operation Fortitude, and it implemented a fictitious army, the First US Army Group (FUSAG) which would land in Pas-de-Calais. They even made the commander of this fictitous plan General Patton. Of course, they leaked this fictitious plan. By January 1944, there was confirmation via Ultra that the Germans had bought into this plan. Rommel believed that the Allies were still going to land in Normandy, but Hitler overrode his objections and placed half of his army in Pas-de-Calais. Therefore, when the Allied forces landed in Normandy, it was only half defended, and by the time Hitler had risen to order the other half of the army to reach Normandy, the Allied forces had gained the beachhead.

3) Finally, Hitler believed that if he was able to crush the American and Brittish forces in the West, that Stalin would crumble in the East and offer Russian surrender. As a result, Hitler moved the majority of his troops to the West and left his Eastern territory severely under defensed. The battle on the Eastern Front was way more intense than that on the West. While the Allied forces did not hate the German forces, the same could not be said for between the Russians and Germans. So while the Western front was more of a civil war (as civil as war can get I suppose) the Eastern front was a slaughterhouse. Almost no P.O.W.'s survived. The Eastern territory was crushed. And Russia would become a national powerhouse threat for the next 30+ years as a result.

[KanMan]

Yeah, basically what Penguin said, I was too busy typing to see that he had already posted it =)

[OrigamiSensei]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, we were brutal butchers as well. The thing I find the most disturbing about the war was the firebombing of Toyko. After watching 9/11, I cant imagine the U.S. intentionally burning 100,000 civilians in a night.

[/ QUOTE ]
It becomes a lot easier when you understand the nature of Japanese industry at that time. Unlike in America and Europe where manufacturing was concentrated in large factories and industrial areas Japanese industry was highly dispersed throughout all the various neighborhoods of a city. Many Japanese had small machine shops and manufacturing in their homes or next to their homes. Thus it was impossible to distinguish between industrial and residential areas and the concept of a military target became blurred. Also if you kill the civilians they can't be manufacturing weapons - a sad but obvious conclusion that was drawn early in the Second World War by both sides.

Does that make us brutal butchers? I don't think so, despite Halsey's urging to "kill Japs, kill Japs, kill Japs". Remember this was a regime that not only started a war with us in 1941 but lauched a bloody and brutal invasion of China in 1931. This included the horrors of "The Rape of Nanking". They were the butchers and regardless of how horrible it was the savagery of our retribution was warranted and necessary.

[Jamougha]

Invading Poland.

[jnalpak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Japan: Failing to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative
Germans: Failing to give up the beachheads in france and launch a counter attack instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Japan actually did not fail to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative. Going into the Pearl Harbor invasion, Japan knew with a successful strike, that they would be able to control the Pacific for 6 full months, with uncertainty looming thereafter. As a matter of fact, Japan did control the Pacific, for almost exactly six months, taking over almost all of Asia, and building a huge perimeter defense. It was their demolition at Midway (where I don't believe they should have even engaged battle in), which lead to their demise.

The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.

The Germans largest mistakes were: 1)their inability to deal with the Allied powers codebreaking abilities (Great Britains was called Ultra I believe, I forget the name of the U.S. codebreakers) and radar capabilities, 2) getting duped by the Allies on D-Day, and 3)committing the majority of their defense on the Western front instead of the East.

1) Codebreaking and radar: the German U-boats were a HUGE threat in the Atlantic Ocean and they could have curtailed the unparalled amount of U.S. production of war supplies being exported to Britain, but the U-Boats were basically snuffed out. Codebreaking also allowed the Allied sources to be prepared for German counterattacks. For instance, Eisenhower caught hold of Hitler's surprize attack in the Battle of Normandy via Ultra, and without getting into specifics, was able to drive the Germans all the way back to the Siegfried Line without a major battle for France.

2) There were two highly likely landing spots for the Allied Forces on D-Day: Normandy and Pas-de-Calais. The Allied created a deception plan, called Operation Fortitude, and it implemented a fictitious army, the First US Army Group (FUSAG) which would land in Pas-de-Calais. They even made the commander of this fictitous plan General Patton. Of course, they leaked this fictitious plan. By January 1944, there was confirmation via Ultra that the Germans had bought into this plan. Rommel believed that the Allies were still going to land in Normandy, but Hitler overrode his objections and placed half of his army in Pas-de-Calais. Therefore, when the Allied forces landed in Normandy, it was only half defended, and by the time Hitler had risen to order the other half of the army to reach Normandy, the Allied forces had gained the beachhead.

3) Finally, Hitler believed that if he was able to crush the American and Brittish forces in the West, that Stalin would crumble in the East and offer Russian surrender. As a result, Hitler moved the majority of his troops to the West and left his Eastern territory severely under defensed. The battle on the Eastern Front was way more intense than that on the West. While the Allied forces did not hate the German forces, the same could not be said for between the Russians and Germans. So while the Western front was more of a civil war (as civil as war can get I suppose) the Eastern front was a slaughterhouse. Almost no P.O.W.'s survived. The Eastern territory was crushed. And Russia would become a national powerhouse threat for the next 30+ years as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks, this reminded of why i love history...especially the art of war.