curtains' hand #12

[Irieguy]

I don't love a less-than-push raise here unless you've been pushing a ton and you think it actually gives you a bit more FE than a shove.

If that's not the case, then here's the deal:

You have to call a push once you've put that much of your stack in and the pot is so big. Therefore, you want to widen the pushing ranges of your opponents.

You can limp here and call a single push. If there's a push and an overcall you can fold correctly. This is what I would likely do.

I also think an open-fold is fine here, though I would tend to agree with Curtains that you can probably always open-raise with nines after level 3 and not lose money. Your position and number of players left to act here makes folding reasonable, though.

Irieguy

[curtains]

btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at poker but I think the raise you made is the absolute worst way to play this hand. Limping>pushing>folding>>>raising some small amount.

Indy

[curtains]

It's ok a lot of people feel like this. They fold a lot, and again, its also so I can make standard raises in some situations without totally giving away my hand. It's important to me that I can make this raise with AA, and not have every good/observant player at the table know that I must have AA or KK or whatever.

[Austiger]

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btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at poker but I think the raise you made is the absolute worst way to play this hand.

Indy

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Indy, cmon. How can you have that many posts and suck at poker?

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]

It's ok a lot of people feel like this. They fold a lot, and again, its also so I can make standard raises in some situations without totally giving away my hand. It's important to me that I can make this raise with AA, and not have every good/observant player at the table know that I must have AA or KK or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. I'm just not sure that this is the right stage of the game to worry about that. Unless, of course, you plan to create this image for future SNGs.

Don't listen to me man, when I look at your HHs I'm often confused by your plays...but ur a bigger winner than me so I must be missing something.

Indy

[curtains]

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It's ok a lot of people feel like this. They fold a lot, and again, its also so I can make standard raises in some situations without totally giving away my hand. It's important to me that I can make this raise with AA, and not have every good/observant player at the table know that I must have AA or KK or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. I'm just not sure that this is the right stage of the game to worry about that. Unless, of course, you plan to create this image for future SNGs.

Don't listen to me man, when I look at your HHs I'm often confused by your plays...but ur a bigger winner than me so I must be missing something.

Indy

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btw of course it has to do with future SnGs! I play with the same players all the time!

[Indiana]

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btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at poker but I think the raise you made is the absolute worst way to play this hand.

Indy

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Indy, cmon. How can you have that many posts and suck at poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

OOT and crappy sports betting picks that got everybody broke I don't completely suck, i mean I do beat the $22s, $33s, and doing ok at $55s and I do completely destroy the $22s and $55s HU matches on stars....but I'm nothing like curtains, Degen, Irie, etc etc...although I do aspire to be at that level someday.

Indy

[Indiana]

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It's ok a lot of people feel like this. They fold a lot, and again, its also so I can make standard raises in some situations without totally giving away my hand. It's important to me that I can make this raise with AA, and not have every good/observant player at the table know that I must have AA or KK or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. I'm just not sure that this is the right stage of the game to worry about that. Unless, of course, you plan to create this image for future SNGs.

Don't listen to me man, when I look at your HHs I'm often confused by your plays...but ur a bigger winner than me so I must be missing something.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

btw of course it has to do with future SnGs! I play with the same players all the time!

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I only play up to the $55s. I don't see the same players all that often. Dam it must be a completely different world at the 215s.

Indy

[curtains]

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btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at poker but I think the raise you made is the absolute worst way to play this hand.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Indy, cmon. How can you have that many posts and suck at poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

OOT and crappy sports betting picks that got everybody broke I don't completely suck, i mean I do beat the $22s, $33s, and doing ok at $55s and I do completely destroy the $22s and $55s HU matches on stars....but I'm nothing like curtains, Degen, Irie, etc etc...although I do aspire to be at that level someday.

Indy

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lol