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#11
06-10-2006, 05:22 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why are you betting this flop? Take the free card. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I hate that flop bet. Haupt_234 [/ QUOTE ] I don't hate the flop bet that much. This is basically his only chance at winning the hand. He has some fold equity right now, whereas checking the flop says he has no club and the hand is over. Someone might fold a medium club that they will now take to the river if we check. I'm folding the turn for sure and may even fold to the flop c/r. 
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#12
06-10-2006, 07:58 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
fold the turn you are simply not winning here. He has a Q at very least, him or mp2. He could easly have KQ or AQ making your clean outs about shot for TP. He could also have some retarded flush. fold next hand. [/ QUOTE ] I know Im behind. The problem is im getting 11 to 1 on my call. If he has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Qx or K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Qx I have to call. If UTG had a flush, he would of CRed the turn. MP2 would of raised the turn if he had a flush when UTG bet into him.
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#13
06-10-2006, 10:12 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
What my point is though even if 1 of them has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x or K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x you are still drawing extremely thin since A high is probably never good here. How many of your outs do you think are clean?
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#14
06-10-2006, 10:23 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, let's take an offensive approach to implied value. It's to you again on the flop. Instead of calling, you raise instead. By raising, you're making your pot odds 24:6 or 4:1. On the turn, if your opponent bets again, the pot is 36:6 or 6:1, which gives you at least 7:1 realistic odds when factored with implied value. [/ QUOTE ] so this is what those TAGs with flop AF's of 6+ are doing. btw, raising on one street to insure you get the proper odds to draw on the next is illogical.
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#15
06-11-2006, 08:03 AM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
I don't hate the flop bet that much. This is basically his only chance at winning the hand. He has some fold equity right now, whereas checking the flop says he has no club and the hand is over. Someone might fold a medium club that they will now take to the river if we check. [/ QUOTE ] In a tighter game or in a headsup situation, I might be inclined to agree with you, but consider OP's description of the characters in question: [ QUOTE ] UTG raises(he is very laggy. has raised a 4 of the last 6 hands. One of which was the powerhouse K2s), MP2 3 bets(he is stuck and aware of our laggy UTG. he has been playing very badly tonight) [/ QUOTE ] Players who raise K2s usually take anything and everything to showdown, and TAGs who are on tilt tend to do so as well. There are scenarios where a bet here would be in order, but this is not one of them. Take the free card.
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#16
06-11-2006, 10:12 AM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
What my point is though even if 1 of them has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x or K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x you are still drawing extremely thin since A high is probably never good here. How many of your outs do you think are clean? [/ QUOTE ] 5 outs 3 jacks and 2 kings I put them both on big aces in the middle of the hand. I know I was right on one hand. Didnt see the other. Its a very slim call. But when the pot is that big, i tend to play a little (too?) loose. Even more so against lags.
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#17
06-12-2006, 07:39 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
hi brandon
you should fold this hand on the flop. these type opponents are not savy enough to understand that their minor flush draw is no good and you'll never get even so much as a lowly 4 high off his hand. and that Q....this flop tackles even the most robust red AK handily with ease. this one is a clearcut check-fold or fold, any way you look at it, immediately on the flop. do not get caught up in the hand's aesthetic properties and compartmentalize your holding. you need to combine post-flop and on the flop. you must combine hand with flop. if the hand doesn't have the adhesive werewithal to adhere onto the flop on its own accord, don't slaughter the horse to make glue. if the hand slides off, kill it. these type hands are very bad. never slaughter the horse. kill the hand.
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#18
07-01-2006, 06:34 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
hi brandon you should fold this hand on the flop. these type opponents are not savy enough to understand that their minor flush draw is no good and you'll never get even so much as a lowly 4 high off his hand. and that Q....this flop tackles even the most robust red AK handily with ease. this one is a clearcut check-fold or fold, any way you look at it, immediately on the flop. do not get caught up in the hand's aesthetic properties and compartmentalize your holding. you need to combine post-flop and on the flop. you must combine hand with flop. if the hand doesn't have the adhesive werewithal to adhere onto the flop on its own accord, don't slaughter the horse to make glue. if the hand slides off, kill it. these type hands are very bad. never slaughter the horse. kill the hand. [/ QUOTE ] So, so awesome. Glad to see you again.
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#19
07-01-2006, 07:18 PM
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Re: Who gives up on the turn here? AKs on a nasty board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't hate the flop bet that much. This is basically his only chance at winning the hand. He has some fold equity right now, whereas checking the flop says he has no club and the hand is over. Someone might fold a medium club that they will now take to the river if we check. [/ QUOTE ] In a tighter game or in a headsup situation, I might be inclined to agree with you, but consider OP's description of the characters in question: [ QUOTE ] UTG raises(he is very laggy. has raised a 4 of the last 6 hands. One of which was the powerhouse K2s), MP2 3 bets(he is stuck and aware of our laggy UTG. he has been playing very badly tonight) [/ QUOTE ] Players who raise K2s usually take anything and everything to showdown, and TAGs who are on tilt tend to do so as well. There are scenarios where a bet here would be in order, but this is not one of them. Take the free card. [/ QUOTE ] funny when i read the hand i was thinking the same thing and then I saw my post and was like, oops. given the players and board texture a flop check is likely best here.
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