Nl200, 99 vs LAG deep

[lassie]

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well when he cr's it just looks like a big hand from a solid player to me, I can't really see AK type hands cr'ing here.

I'd put in his range Axhh, 78hh, JQo/s, Q8hh, KK, TT.

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Exactly. You said it yourself. Most times he is on a superdraw here, so I think it's a big mistake not to three-bet this flop.

I dont see him checkraising with three of a kind kings, tens or even a straight on such a drawheavy board.

Edit, three-betting preflop is maybe a good idea here by the way?

[fanmail]

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I dont like either pushing here or reraising any bigger.

If I reraise any bigger, I'm pretty much committed and it will be tough to get away from the hand.

If I push here villain is only going to call me when I'm behind - sometimes I'll actually be drawing for two outs.

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You have a set against a LAG on a draw heavy board. Why are you afraid to raise big? So what if it looks like you are committed. Are you not ok with getting it all in on this flop agaisnt this opponent? What did you want to have happen when you called with 9's? Even if he has the str8, you still have a redraw. There's so many other hands he could have here. Seems to me like you are being results oriented because you lost this time.

[lassie]

No, I definetely dont like a push here. As I said before, I'll only get a call from villain when I'm behind. Sometimes I'm crushed, sometimes I got outs for a boat, but I'll be behind every single time he calls a push here.

By the way, 300bb's is at stake here.

[jkkkk]

consider my range and why 3-betting against it will be bad, if you 3-bet he will call with anything in that range, of course half the time your screwed and half the time hes drawing, either way you have lost control over the pot, you still have no idea what he has, well..

you know hes either drawing for a cazillion cards or he has you crushed, if the turn blanks and he checks he is able to make a perfect decison when you bet (push when he has you crushed, call when he has immediate odds).

either way he stacks you when he has the best of it, I think if his draw range was wider, i.e the straight draws were a more realistic possibility, then I would take creeds line and 3-bet a LOT more.

If you call the cr you are awarded a lot more control over the pot and will lose less when you are behind, win more when you are ahead.

[Morrek]

I agree with King of the Nits, just call his c/r and play poker on further streets. I'm not looking to get it allin on this flop with 3+buyin stacks and bottom set

[Thremp]

I will occasionaly 3-bet here preflop to help define hands a little bit. It depends how tight he is UTG. 6-handed and deep makes it tricky. Being deep really makes it very profitbale to call with a wide range preflop.

This board is ultra-draw heavy. I can't see why he'd C/R this hand or with what range he'd be doing it with unless he has the big draw. With a board like this you'd be vulnerable even with top set to you checking behind and a lot of bad cards peeling off.

Your 3-bet on the flop sucks. Raise bigger and fold to a push. As played I call his push. Or push the turn.

Preferred line: 3-bet pre, fold to 4-bet w/o odds. Bet flop, usually 3-bet push here.

[Melchiades]

Hmmm. My line would be to 3-bet the flop bigger, and call a push. If he just calls, push most turns. Is that bad? His check raise makes very little sense to me, I have a hard time imagining any hands that I would like that play with.

To me there is a lot of nitty advice in this thread. If we are so afraid to tangle with the bigstack with these deep stacks, shouldn't we just not sit here with a 300BB+ stack? Or at least never enter a pot with him?

[Megenoita]

Whoever said that they don't like bottom set with this stack is silly. It's a draw heavy board and villain is laggy-he has KK/QQ/TT extremely rarely. Definitely raise more on the flop, like the pot, and pushing may not be bad b/c it looks like a draw.

[lassie]

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If we are so afraid to tangle with the bigstack with these deep stacks, shouldn't we just not sit here with a 300BB+ stack? Or at least never enter a pot with him?

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Nobody ever said that we were afraid to tangle with the bigstack, but this really is a rotten situation.

As already mentioned I think we are gonna see a draw 8/10 times here. I dont see villain checking such a drawheavy flop with other hands than really strong draws, like 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], so I definetely think that we can eliminate strong made hands like set, two pairs, TPTK and a straight here.

By the way I think its a bit dramatic to push 600$ into a pot of about 60$, so...
I see the point in making a bigger reraise here to give villain worse odds. With a raise to 110 villain is getting something like 3:1 so we should propably reraise to about 250 here, right?

[Melchiades]

There is nothing rotten about this situation if we are gonna see a draw 8/10 times.