Play an instructive hand with me ---- what would you do?

[JayTee]

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, you're probably right after rereading this

If we just had TPTK here I'm checking almost every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have this thread tattoed in my eyelids. Although I'm sure I misapply it daily.

[mornelth]

I bet 2K - villain is more likely to have some sort of a combo draw than J9 for a ready straight. If i'm check-mini-raised - I call and try to get to cheap showdown, call most bets on a river that's not a spade, 6 or a J. If on the turn vilain check-pushes - I may be able to get away from my hand.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Hero (t16880)
SB (t11165)
BB (t12040)
UTG (t14960)
MP1 (t2175)
MP2 (t9645)
CO (t5515)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t100.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1300) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t750</font>, BB calls t750.

Turn: (t2800) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks.



[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I bet a little more on the flop and follow this with 3/4 on the turn. If the river is a J, 6 or spade, I don't make a boat and he leads, I can fold here quite easily, depending on the size of the raise but there's not really any bet amount I'm happy calling. I mean, if he reverses this river, what can it mean, given the bets I've made flop and turn. I doubt it means he's been including scare cards as outs.

If he checks the river to me, I would go 1/3 the pot on the river.

[allenciox]

Ok. In the actual hand, here is what happened:

Turn: (t2800) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1800</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t3600</font>,

What do you do now? What hands do you include in villian's range?

[AceLuby]

Does anyone think he may have a set? I probably put him on a set of 7's since you have a 8 and a 10 and he slow played them. I would call the minraise and see what he does on the river. If he checks you should check behind.

[registrar]

I don't think you can put him on a specific hand here, though a set is possible. I think there are a lot of possibilities. However, I don't think that a lonely pair is one of them. He's not going to let you bet the flop and then check-min-raise the river with top or over pair. He's either way ahead or has outs. There's a flush draw and a variety of straights showing. He could have flopped a str8, or turned one. He could have a pair and a draw.

Whatever he has, he obviously thinks that you don't have all that much and he doesn't think you're going to improve all that much or he'd put you in rather than risk a min-raise on that board on the turn.

I call here because I'm nearly getting the odds to hit my four-outer and I presume the rest of his money is going in if I do. If I miss, well, it depends what he does and what the river card is, but I'm loathed to put any more money in the pot. If he checked to me, I'm not sure if he puts more money in himself with less than top two pair, so I check behind.

[nath]

I just jam it, GG if J9 or 77 is in. That flop is so draw heavy that he could be making this move with lots of hands, like a combo draw setting up to jam the river even if he misses.

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever he has, he obviously thinks that you don't have all that much

[/ QUOTE ]

All the more reason to show him he's wrong and make him pay to get whereever he's trying to get.

[registrar]

You do this even with the read that villain is a "pretty average" player?

I'm happy to jam if I think I'm being floated but if my read was that villain is ABC, then call, call, check min-raise tells me pretty loudly that I'm beat. I mean, that's how I play J9 or 56 here.

I poften make the mistake of assuming players will play the way I do but based on my read that villain in no better than I am and will act as I would:

Overpair: reraise pre-flop
Top pair: bet the flop
Two pair or set: bet the flop or check raise the flop 3x to get a free turn card. Maybe the set I check call, check min-raise... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[weimoxer]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet 2K - villain is more likely to have some sort of a combo draw than J9 for a ready straight. If i'm check-mini-raised - I call and try to get to cheap showdown, call most bets on a river that's not a spade, 6 or a J. If on the turn vilain check-pushes - I may be able to get away from my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you said hes an average played I dont know if he makes this move without a strong hand or at the very least a made hand, I doubt he would reraise to bluff you out on draws, as an average player. So I put him on maybe j9, set, or 2 pair. He may even have 9 10, thinking his top pair is good against ur draw, even thought he is average player, he will call draws on the norm, but tends to overpush when thinking some1 on a draw with marginal hand. Just my opinion not knowing anything else on villan actions at the table.

[AceLuby]

Remember he called a raise PF and a bet post flop. What kind of range can you put him on in this situation?