The Estonian miracle

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But Estonia did it with a highly literate and enterprising economy, after years of a disasterous socialist course. Therefore Estonia > Morroco.

[/ QUOTE ] LOL. Highly literate societies in an "enterprising economy" have a lot of advantages over the opposite. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you can actually enjoy culture and life rather than shovelling sheep manure and praising Allah 5 times a day.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
But not the type of "socialism" I advocate.

[/ QUOTE ]
The excuse every socialist uses. Somehow socialism never winds up working the way people intended...

[Felix_Nietzsche]

Morocco is going to reach growth of around 6% this year and inflation is around 2%. Clearly it must be the envy of all other economies and we should therefore move to a high tariff, high illiteracy agriculture-based economy.
************************************************** **********
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5431.htm
"Macroeconomic stability coupled with low inflation and relatively slow economic growth has characterized the Moroccan economy over the past several years."

"The Jettou government continues to pursue reform, liberalization, and modernization aimed at stimulating growth and creating jobs."

"While overall unemployment stands at 11.6%, this figure masks significantly higher urban unemployment (currently at about 18%)."

"Morocco also has liberalized rules for oil and gas exploration"

"The U.S.-Morocco FTA (Free Trade Agreement) will immediately eliminate tariffs on 95% of bilateral trade in consumer and industrial products with all remaining tariffs to be eliminated within nine years."


As usual Nicky.G tries to BS us and as usual he is easy to refute.
Morocco's economy has been HISTORICALLY lousy. Only the last few years has Morocco made efforts to implement SOME free market reforms (just like ESTONIA). A 6% growth is GDP is a GIANT leap for Morroco and evidence that these free market reforms are having an effect. Reaganomics works. Too bad the nitwits is Europe don't realize this and are clinging to their welfare states.

Lets examine cause and effect:
Morooco institutes SOME free market reforms and their GDP grows 6%.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.......more evidence that supports the OP's premise.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

But not the type of "socialism" I advocate.
************************************************** **
So which country in the world do you see as having the best ecomony to emulate?

[Iq75]

[ QUOTE ]

Pretty solid evidence that limiting taxes and government can have a very positive effect on a nation, almost immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody can tell what sourt of positive affect those limited taxes have/had to the growt of Estonian economy.

It probably had some positive affect. But most of the investments made there were due to the fact that corporations in neigbouring countries wanted to take the market shares while they were still cheap and before their rivals could take them. They also had/have very cheap labour force and relatively stabile society.

The taxes are one factor, but by no means the biggest one.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty solid evidence that limiting taxes and government can have a very positive effect on a nation, almost immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so what about the Russian "miracle", where you also have massive privatization and first minimal, then flat, tax schemes.

Pretty solid evidence that limiting taxes and government can have an absolutely disastrous effect on a nation, almost immediately?

The lesson: Be careful what you infer from any single instance. The world is more complicated than most people would like to believe. If you go around cherry-picking empirics to support your pet theory, then you will wind up self-satisfied but wrong. Most people can secretly live with that, which is too bad.

[bluffe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty solid evidence that limiting taxes and government can have a very positive effect on a nation, almost immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so what about the Russian "miracle", where you also have massive privatization and first minimal, then flat, tax schemes.

Pretty solid evidence that limiting taxes and government can have an absolutely disastrous effect on a nation, almost immediately?

The lesson: Be careful what you infer from any single instance. The world is more complicated than most people would like to believe. If you go around cherry-picking empirics to support your pet theory, then you will wind up self-satisfied but wrong. Most people can secretly live with that, which is too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[moorobot]

[ QUOTE ]


But not the type of "socialism" I advocate.
************************************************** **
So which country in the world do you see as having the best ecomony to emulate?


[/ QUOTE ] Sweden, Norway and Japan are doing great; West Germany was great but Germany is now in a period of rebuilding in a way after the two went together.

They'll be "emulatable" again in a few years as they are making progress.

What I really hope for someday is an economy with worker controlled democratic firms with universal social programs and hardly any 'means tested' ones.

[moorobot]

[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But not the type of "socialism" I advocate.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The excuse every socialist uses. Somehow socialism never winds up working the way people intended...

[/ QUOTE ] Actually 'social democracy' has been a huge sucess in western and asian nations.

[moorobot]

Proof that planned economies run by fascist dictatorships "work" [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

China, over the last three decades, has achieved and maintained rates of increase in total output unparalleled by any of the world's capitalist economies, supporting extraordinary improvements in living standards.

The Soviet Union achieved very high rates of ecnomic growth between the late 1920s and mid 1980s.

In all seriousness, they are still far from acceptable despite their economic growth, because that is far from the most important thing in the universe. The lack of democracy and human rights violations in these countries made them unacceptable, despite the growth.

If it was in fact the case that making tax rates less progressive decreased efficiency (and the evidence for the opposite view is stronger, as I pointed out); for example, making those taxes less progressive would still not be acceptable.