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#11
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Do other people check this turn or 3 bet (fold to a 4 bet) to the check raise? I assume no one folds when check raised.
I think 3 bets is out of the question. Your hand is strong enough to showdown and you won't get called if you're ahead. Call and let him bet the river. If you're ahead, he has two outs, if you're behind, show it as cheaply as possible. I think he has KQs. (But I'm guessing by your read on him that he might cap pre-flop with AK. maybe too presumptuous.) |
#12
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I think you have to call this down. Unless you know the other player really well or have a really good read, I would call it down.
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#13
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I think I might even 3 bet the turn...
If he 4 bets... it becomes an easy fold. If he just calls I think you can value bet the river. So many players, rookies to semi-pros, pull this check raise [censored] on paired boards all the time. I see it at the commerce all the time.... KKT flop... I have Aces... constantly getting check raised on the turn by hands like 10-J, 99, QQ, 77, ect... it's weird. I usually 3 bet for value in this situation for the 70% of the time that I'm ahead... and debate on making either a crying call or folding for those times that I get capped. Furthermore... a three bet on the turn may get you a free show down if you are against K-10, K-J, or KQ... common open raise hands in limit, but they may fear they are dominated by A-K |
#14
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Another line is to check behind on the flop,planning to call him down &/or bet any street he checks on the turn & river.It's a good,safe place to give a free card,& may get you some action from a worse hand or save you from getting check-raised if he has a K.
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#15
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I think 3-betting is pretty bad. You let him get away from hands that you beat (all of which are drawing to 2 outs), and of course he never folds a better one. I'm not seeing the value of getting a freeshowdown out of a weak K...we're behind anyway, some of them 4-bet us, calling down lets us spike a 2 outer sometimes we are behind...
If you really think you are ahead, I'd much rather raise the river instead. Let him fire again, or at least c/c with a worse made hand. |
#16
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I'd check behind on the turn when he calls the flop on that board. Either he is killing you or he has two outs typically. Plus your check can induce a bluff on the river from him with a hand he folds to a turn bet. Either way, with position you ensure a bet goes in on the end.
Jeff |
#17
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He's decent, and he's opened UTG - so we can put him on 99-AA, AK, AQ, KQs.
If he just calls the paired flop and it's drawless (KK2 rainbow), you're probably looking at a hand where he is going to check raise you on the turn almost always. I like checking behind on the turn and calling the river if he bets, otherwise, betting it yourself if he checks. Given the line you took, I'm calling down too, expecting to see a K. |
#18
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I don't mean to beat this thread to death but since I appear to be the only guy who advocates mucking to the turn raise, please indulge me by answering a couple of questions.
If you were the villain, how likely are you to check raise this board, with this smallish pot against an opponent with a standard preflop three betting range? If you would check raise as the villain did with a holding that does not include a K, let's assume a smaller pocket pair, what is the purpose of your raise? Do you expect to get a better holding to fold, get a cheap showdown, expect that you may have the better hand, etc. Obviously all these things come into play, but is one area given a greater weighting? If you're expecting an opponent who three bet you preflop to fold, why do you expect this when the nearly unanimous consensus on this forum is to continue with the hand? There are five BB in the pot before the check raise. Is this enough to justify this sort of move when your three betting preflop opponent may well have a K in his/her holding? At worst, if they haven't a K, it is close to certain that they have a competing high pocket pair which may beat yours anyway. Are you expecting to see the K shown down, but feel you need to stay in the hand to prevent others from getting tricky when you show preflop strength? To me, this seems situation seems like a clear fold, especially in live play, against all but the wildest opponents. There are a tiny number of players against whom I play who I can picture calling down against. Do you feel that a live player is more or less likely tha an internet player to make the turn raise without a K in his hand? I ask this in the sense that I consider my willingness to continue check raised turns with top pair, especially heads up, to be one of those areas where I'm giving away too many chips so I'm surprised that so many of you are continuing with this hand. Yes, I can think of a recent bad river laydown I made in a similar hand, and am trying to figure the direction in which a leak may lie. Thanks in advanced for the replies. |
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