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#12
05-09-2006, 04:03 PM
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Re: handling a flop donk with mid pair + CC OTB
[ QUOTE ]
My default is to raise this flop... [/ QUOTE ] Everybody's saying this, but I don't get it. If you raise you cut your odds to 4:1 assuming BN folds and BB doesn't 3-bet. 4:1 is a horrible price to continue with a 5-outer, so I guess everyone thinks A3 is good here at least 20% of the time. Yes? No read, A3 is good 20% of the time? And then how do you handle a 3-bet from BB if BN folds? If you think you're good here 10% after the first gaybet, IMO you must be assuming that BB gaybets at least 54. But people who gaybet OESD's often 3-bet them and lead turn, so once the pot has gotten this big, you are basically forced to call down all the way when no 6 hits. All in all it looked to me that fold>call>raise on the flop. Enlightment plz? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Edit - fixed math. 
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#15
05-09-2006, 07:07 PM
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Re: handling a flop donk with mid pair + CC OTB
Very read dependant, I probably never call here (usu. raise, fold depending on villains). Villain doesn't have a K every time, and you'd rather be up against 2 overcards than 4. If 3-bet, call and fold the turn UI. Then again, if you have a read, it's easier. If he doesn't, bet turn and check behind on river. That's your best chance to fold out 44-QQ.
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#16
05-09-2006, 07:56 PM
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Re: handling a flop donk with mid pair + CC OTB
[ QUOTE ]
Very read dependant, I probably never call here (usu. raise, fold depending on villains). Villain doesn't have a K every time, and you'd rather be up against 2 overcards than 4. If 3-bet, call and fold the turn UI. Then again, if you have a read, it's easier. If he doesn't, bet turn and check behind on river. That's your best chance to fold out 44-QQ. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the reply. do you really there is a tag out there that is able throw away the range you mentioned? I believe their calling range besides the king will include any ace and small pockets. I can't imagine a guy who is calling 2 cold here with 22-55 is willing to let the pot go. I know you mentioned 44 and up. It seems that players who like to cold call this preflop vs 1 opener says to themselves " I can beat an ace here preflop so I am going to show this one down unless an ace appears" then if they have 66 or higher that usually warrants a 3 bet to a CO steal. I can't imagine this type of player willing to cold call preflop without the intention of trying to take the pot away at somepoint in the hand barring any ace or simply call me down with baby pairs. What do you guys think?
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#17
05-09-2006, 08:16 PM
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Re: handling a flop donk with mid pair + CC OTB
The type of player who donks 66 here is not folding enough to make a bluff profitable getting 10.25:4. He'll probably give you a free showdown with those hands anyways if you just call flop+turn, once again I don't see how putting in extra bets is any good.
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#18
05-10-2006, 05:49 AM
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Re: handling a flop donk with mid pair + CC OTB
[ QUOTE ]
Often your decision process should go something like this: 1) Is my hand too good to fold given the pot size, if so got to the next step 2) Would my hand benefit from driving out players behind me? If so, then raise. If not, then fold. [/ QUOTE ] Should that last word be "call"? Guy.
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#19
05-10-2006, 05:52 AM
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Re: handling a flop donk with mid pair + CC OTB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Often your decision process should go something like this: 1) Is my hand too good to fold given the pot size, if so got to the next step 2) Would my hand benefit from driving out players behind me? If so, then raise. If not, then fold. [/ QUOTE ] Should that last word be "call"? Guy. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, thanks. Your moron, Cartman
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