i suck

[jsnipes28]

[ QUOTE ]
I like raising the flop bet, maybe to $120. I want to know where I stand. SB likely has a worse hand than you and will fold here a large % of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spending 120 to figure out if we are ahead is not good, IMO. He will fold hands that we beat and call with those that we are ahead of. Folding out worse hands is not the goal here.

I think it's either bet turn and if called check behind on river or check turn bet river. I think the latter is better here because it gives him hope with JJ, TT that you had a draw and allows you to get paid off by QJ or KQ which i do not think will happen if you bet both streets.

[emil3000]

Raising flop bet is v bad here.


With this kind of hand I want money to go in on at least two street. Here I'd tend to bet the tunr to punish JT. Once he checks to you it's really pretty safe to bet, he will checkraise you with a set, but it's an easy fold then. Betting the turn also leaves me the option of valuebetting the river. It's a sort of dicey proposal, but with the right image you can pull it off. That's the beauty of playing LAG You can know for pretty much certain that he doesn't have an overpair, which is nice to knoe when valuebtting the river.

It gets troublesome however, when he checkcalls the turn and leads the river. This gives you an opportunity to make a mistake, either by folding the best hand or paying off.

There is also the matter of him folding a worse queen to a turn bet. This is very bad of course, and is a strong incentive to check the turn. I rarely have this problem in the games I play.

Once you check the turn you absolutely MUST bet the river. Checking behind here leaves tons of value on the table.


So in conclusion, checking and betting are both fine, and which one is correct in this instance is determined by fairly subtle nuances. An active LAGgy image points towards betting, while more solid players are better off checking.

[ahnuld]

I check raise draws allin on the turn. Dont bet the turn. Bte the river so weaker Q's pay.

[emil3000]

[ QUOTE ]
I check raise draws allin on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're in an extreme minority. Also I think you lose money doing so.

[swolfe]

i'd probably reraise preflop

flop call looks good, so does turn check

value bet the river

[CamelZoo]

thanks for the replies, i guess the consensus is that money should have gotten in one more time, but probably not on the turn because i'm not happy calling a turn c/r with TPTK against a SB showing a lot of strength. i think in cases like this next time i half pot it on the river and reconsider to a c/r but this time i checked behind and he showed an awkwardly played QJo. He actually commented about my passive line, and told me how he pot bet the flop to "gain information" which i don't necessarily agree with, and wonder how many people actually do this.

at first i dismissed his line, but it got me thinking about how if pfr cbets (ignoring me on button) he calls, turn blanks, he checks, another pfr bet, now he's costing himself two bets to see if he's good whereas on the flop he's charging himself one bet. the moral is that i should have bet the river and i probably could have gotten another $70-80 or so out of him.

[AZK]

Hey,

Haven't read any responses, if the CO sucks (i.e. calls too much, i'd probably reraise pre and isolate.) This could also be the bigger games wearing off on me too, as people open with so much garbage all the time, not 3-betting AQ in position is a crime (most of the time). If you didn't that's cool too, at least you have position.

I like flop call and think you absolutely have to bet the turn, if you get cr it's an easy laydown, if you don't it's a freeshowdown which is nice. checking is bad as you are being forced to call river most of the time, if he was betting a draw it may have hit, he may have the nuts, etc, etc, it basically just puts you in a world of doubt where you don't know whether calling/folding/raising is right. This is bad. You never want to feel like this. Betting the turn fixes all of this.

As it stands, when he goes check check on both streets, i'm pretty confident you are good, think about whether has KQ or JT and value bet his ass.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
I check raise draws allin on the turn. Dont bet the turn. Bte the river so weaker Q's pay.

[/ QUOTE ]
why would he not want to bet turn?

[CamelZoo]

if i were to bet turn here, how much, and do you feel comfortable folding to a c/r? even a c/minraise ends up committing me if i call, with these smallish stacks a real turn bet feels awkward, esp. if i have to lay down to any aggression

[Chaostracize]

Bet pot. He won't raise this river unless he has you beat because you could have very well called his flop bet with a 9.