Along for the ride

[curtains]

Anything but folding here is really terrible, this isnt at all close.

[Irieguy]

Calling here isn't as clearly terrible as everybody makes it sound.

Your call would put 1475 into the pot that you could win, giving you 2.3 to 1. There's no way that K-8 rates to be bigger than a 2.3 to 1 dog to his range, and you're not even close to the bubble yet.

In order for this call to be the clear, terrible mistake suggested your hand would at least have to be a bigger dog than the price laid. It's just not.

Considering that you are the chip dog, the blinds are about to go up, you no longer have any folding equity at all, and there are still 7 players left, I would say that this is at least close enough to entertain.

With the way you describe the table, I would probably have called.

Irieguy

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling here isn't as clearly terrible as everybody makes it sound.

Your call would put 1475 into the pot that you could win, giving you 2.3 to 1. There's no way that K-8 rates to be bigger than a 2.3 to 1 dog to his range, and you're not even close to the bubble yet.

In order for this call to be the clear, terrible mistake suggested your hand would at least have to be a bigger dog than the price laid. It's just not.

Considering that you are the chip dog, the blinds are about to go up, you no longer have any folding equity at all, and there are still 7 players left, I would say that this is at least close enough to entertain.

With the way you describe the table, I would probably have called.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

ICM still applies whether it's the bubble or not. Phil himself came up with 47% IF everyone else folds. Now maybe he did something wrong, but regardless, busting out is busting out.

[microbet]

Situation is bleak, but I'm still folding this and a lot of better hands. I might be willing to go a little below what SNGPT is going to show because of the aggressive table and the impending blinds, but not this far and not KJ either - I think.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Your call would put 1475 into the pot that you could win, giving you 2.3 to 1. There's no way that K-8 rates to be bigger than a 2.3 to 1 dog to his range, and you're not even close to the bubble yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 1.3 to 1, the money we pay doesn't count as money we win for the purposes of determining the odds.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


It's 1.3 to 1, the money we pay doesn't count as money we win for the purposes of determining the odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, 2.3 for 1, not 2.3 to 1. Silly mistake.

Still, calling against his range isn't as bad as ICM makes it look, I don't think. I wish I were getting 2:1 [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Irieguy

[johnnybeef]

Well, in a vacuum, if his range is 66+, AT+, you are a 70/30 dog and you are getting effectively 2.3:1 on your call. The problem I see is that there are still 3 people left to act.

Now, if we take KJ and compare it to this range, we find that we are a 2:1 dog. Given these odds, I'm still not sure if I like calling.

Since you suggested that he might be a little bit looser than this, I have compared both with the range 55+, A8s+, KJs+, A8o+,KJo+. KJ against this is 1.5:1, K8o would be 2.3:1. I think that with the odds you are getting, KJ would be a justifiable call, and K8 would be close, but I would lean towards folding.