Stars $11x180, 99 on Button Facing EP Raise

[cha59]

I want to bump this because I dont see a clear play as being the best vs any given opponent. The stack sizes make this a difficult decision for me.

I am not sure that calling is better than, worse than or about the same as pushing or even folding.

It seems like we're a little too deep for a push to be best, but it might be.

It seems like we dont have a strong enough hand or good enough implied odds to call.

It seems like 99 is too good to fold.

I think part of making the best decision here is dependent on what we think about the original raiser regarding his range and what he will do after we make our play.

I dont have a strong opinion on this yet, but Im interested to see if anyone who hasnt replied to this thread yet thinks calling is clearly the best play, or if the other options make more sense.

If calling is clearly the best play, I'd be interested in hearing more reasons why.

[zoobird]

So basically, the idea is that our 99 isn't going to be as easy for him to bet us off of on the flop when high cards fall as it would be otherwise?

[adanthar]

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It seems like we dont have a strong enough hand or good enough implied odds to call..

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Sure we do. A bunch of times with an all in and a flop the PFR missed, the action will go check, bet, fold, for reasons already stated ITT. Plus you're more or less getting set value odds to start with.

You don't reraise (usually) because you're not really too far ahead of his raising range to start with and hate a 4 bet.

[omaha]

You might want to discount my previous post. I hadnt looked at the stack sizes.

We dont really have much implied odds for set value, and 99 is not too good against the hands that a tag would raise utg with only 13bb left.

I tend to go to my default in this scenario which keeps me out of trouble. Has the utg been constantly raising/ stealing recently? if so, i shove. If not, i drop my pretty pair of nines.

SHoving also has the advantage of minimising the raising that happens on my blinds, or when i am left to act for an orbit or two.

Any thoughts on these comments?

[Spidar]

I don't see how shoving is an option as the all-in MP is (assuming blinds fold) playing for over half the pot. (145x3 + bb100 + sb50-5 = t580) That leaves you risking your stack for the side pot (utg 155 + hero 155 + sb5 = 315) if he has you beat. It's a great scenario for him to get heads up and quad through. What do you hope to gain? In this case I don't think 99 is strong enough for a push. If you're called (based on ur read of utg) you're probably beat. Call hoping to hit the flop or see a board if UTG accomodates. Anyone disagree with this line of thought?

[TFGoose]

We definitely have odds to call here. There's almost 600 in the pot before we call our 300, which is 2-1 right there. UTG+1 has another 2500 chips behind. If he starts the hand with an overpair, and we hit our set, there's a decent likelihood he'll go broke. If we don't hit our hand, and he bets, I'd probably dump the hand. If he starts with overcards, hits nothing and checks the hand down, we show down our pair and hopefully scoop the pot.

I like the call.

--TFGoose

[cha59]

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It seems like we dont have a strong enough hand or good enough implied odds to call..

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Sure we do. A bunch of times with an all in and a flop the PFR missed, the action will go check, bet, fold, for reasons already stated ITT. Plus you're more or less getting set value odds to start with.

You don't reraise (usually) because you're not really too far ahead of his raising range to start with and hate a 4 bet.

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Yeah, the all in shorty improves our chances of showing the hand down so we dont have to worry as much about a c-bet from the ep raiser. Seems reasonable to me.