2/4 B&M - I flop nut flush. I hate money.

[chesspain]

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Remember, everyone at this limit slow plays your hand in this spot and would expect you to do the same.

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Which is exactly what I did; what a noob! So terrible BB and UTG call, a blank falls on the turn and MP2 leads again. So now I'm in the same situation in that a raise might blow away the field. I shoulda just raised the flop where terrible players are more apt to coldcall and perhaps even been lucky enough to cap it.


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Terrible players won't necessarily coldcall the flop with a pair or a crappy heart. Although I think that Babar is correct in that either calling or raising are fine, you were able to keep two extra players in the pot for the same price as raising (when both are probably drawing slim or dead), and were able to get the same aggressor to bet into you again on the turn, when he would have possibly just checkcalled the turn had you raised the flop.

[gobbledygeek]

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My understanding of the OP is that hero acts last.

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Nope, unfortunately my relative position to the bettor sucks. BB and UTG have checked, MP2 has bet and now it's on me to act next. If BB had of been the one betting and UTG and MP2 calling then I would have easily went nuts having everyone already trapped.

[jesse8888]

Huh? It's SB, BB, UTG, MP1, MP2 and Hero in the CO. Here is 5th of 6 to act, but he's on the left of MP2. There is no way for him to extract bets from the fishes (SB, BB, UTG and MP1) one at a time. Correct gobley?

[gobbledygeek]

To everyone advocating a check on the flop (which is what I did), now what on the turn when MP2 leads again? BB and UTG are pretty horrible, they might coldcall with even a medium sized heart...

[Bob T.]

You NEED to raise at some point in time, while they are still drawing. On the river, they can't incorrectly pay to draw.

[TheCount212]

Raise the turn and hope for horrible calls. After all, that's why we held off on the flop, right? The last thing we want here is getting a little too cute and having someone with two pair catching a miracle.

[jesse8888]

I agree that once you call the flop, you need to raise the turn. You gotta put money in there at some point

[One Outer]

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When in doubt against 4 idiots, I tend to just go nuts on the flop. If they make "good" (and by good I mean "ridiculously obvious") folds, good for them

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I love this. I need to remind myself of that concept sometimes.

[reutel]

I think you should raise. Your position on the turn will be terrible if you check. In my experience people will pay two bets if they pay one on the flop. The semi-ideal situation is that you get some calls on the flop, and some calls on the turn. If you call now, you will fold people out with your raise on the turn.

[Scarmiglio]

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I actually think that raising the flop turns your hand face up rather than disguises it. With 6 players in a smooth call absolutely does NOT tip your hand. I think in live play a flush flop generally chills action.

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Don't know where you play, but live players at this level don't think this way. Most live players will wait until the river to raise and will only raise un unpaired board. They figure that 2 pairs will call anyway and may make a boat and by not raising they will SAVE a bet, and they want everyone else to call all the way to get max value for their hand.

Of course a board like this can chill the action, but this is an ideal place to raise the flop. Unlike when you flop a flush holding the Ace, there's an ace on the board and at least one player is likely to have an ace in their hand. Anyone holding an Ace will call any bet/raise on the flop, but may fold if a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes on the turn. Get the money now.