Isn't this the Ed Miller hand?

[ckj]

Fold this preflop. Otherwise raise to get it HU without the blinds if you want to isolate. I like the bet/fold here.

[BigBadBabar]

i just am not clear on when top pair became a bad hand, and if you guys could let me know that would be great [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[calidris]

I doubt he would bet out on the flop with a PP 22-99. JJ-AA would typically be raised PF and you're ahead of TT.

If he doesn't have a PP he might limp with lots of hand containing a 9 or a J. KQ would give him a straight draw and he seems pasive enough to check that on the flop rather than bet. Looks to me that he paired a J (or possibly a 9).

These guys doesn't let go of that so I'd bet for value on both turn and river. I reserve the right to change my mind if a J or 9 hits. I really don't know what I'd do then, checking behind or b/f to a checkraise. Probably check behind since I'm a coward.

[fretelöo]

Why wouldn't a loose-passive just as likely limp with Ax here and be afraid of his kicker? A6 would definitely bet the flop, but decide to call down after the raise.

That's not an argument against betting the turn - I was just curious why you were thinking he paired the J or 9, could have some PP or a draw but not the most obvious TPwK...

[kyzerjose]

pF - Not nuts about the call with 5 folds to me but.... you did. I raise.
Flop - Standard. You aren't getting QT to fold for a raise anyway. Besides, do you ureally think UTG limps QT?
Turn - The hand can be played several ways. Villain is likely to have limped some Broadway J. No pF raise so why fear a stronger A or TT>JJ? We can bet. We can bet and fold to a raise.
We can bet and call a raise. In either of the last two cases, we'll need to re-evaluate our options on the river.
Or
We can make a case for being passive & checking behind on the turn if we want to show the hand down.
a. We keep the pot small.
b. Any rivered K, Q, T or [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] may kill our hand.

If we check behind on the turn, we plan on calling anything other than a K, Q, T or [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] if the Villain leads the river.
If a K, Q, T or [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] comes on the river and the Villain checks, we check behind.

We don't need to be a bunch of aggro monkeys all of the time. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[ciro bonano]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold and then bet/fold again. The rest of you are on crack.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is hero really good > 50% when villain calls him on the river? Our passive villain did bet the flop.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold and then bet/fold again. The rest of you are on crack.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is hero really good > 50% when villain calls him on the river? Our passive villain did bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly with a middle/low pair or a pocket pair.

[calidris]

[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't a loose-passive just as likely limp with Ax here and be afraid of his kicker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, you're right. Another argument for simply calling down. But maybe the raise is what makes SB and BB fold rather than chase draws? Tricky.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
i just am not clear on when top pair became a bad hand, and if you guys could let me know that would be great [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It was in the Lee Jones second edition, I think. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Watkins]

Fretelöo,

FWIW, in the Ed Miller hand you have nothing to protect your TP from so he advocates calling to build a pot because you're unlikely to be drawn out on if ahead. In a post I made a while ago there were draws out but the whole field had already called one bet so I couldn't protect anything with a raise. In this hand there are draws out there & you can protect your hand so I think a raise is correct. I also think a bet/fold on the turn is correct because:

1) you don't want to give a free card if you are ahead;
2) you can take a free showdown if you decide to;
3) if you get raised by this guy you can safely fold;

At my current limits I wouldn't bet the river for a couple of reasons:

1) there isn't even an option to split (at the moment) if he has an A unless it's A2 ;
2) even though you've raised him on the flop & bet the turn, effectively announcing that you have an A he still seems prepared to call down.

However, I have river betting "issues" so please ignore my river action line. - he may think you're on a draw or he may just be happy to call down with MP who knows?