Check-up hand - TPWK from BB in 5-handed pot - Page 2

MrWookie · #11 10-28-2006, 07:39 PM

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Check, always fold for 2, for 1 bet depends on the precise action. Raise, fold, or call are all plausible for one bet.

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4 handed I would tend to bet, and certainly with just 2 opponents. With 5 to the flop, though, this is my plan

Aaron W. · #12 10-28-2006, 07:57 PM

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PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero...

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Hero checks. So let's see what can happen...

Situation 1:
Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero...

Situation 2:
Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero...

Situation 3:
Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero...

Situation 4:
Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero...

MrWookie · #13 10-28-2006, 08:15 PM

1. Raise

2. Call

3. Call

4. Close between call and fold. I lean fold.

antneye · #14 10-28-2006, 08:50 PM

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1. Raise

2. Call

3. Call

4. Close between call and fold. I lean fold.

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I agree on 1 & 2, but for 3 why aren't we raising here? It is very similar to situation 1. Unless we have reads I am raising here. 4 seems like more call than fold. We are getting nice odds to peel here. Why shouldn't we see a card and re-evaluate?

Edit: OK, 3 is not that similar to one, but with only me and villain left I am thinking I have a shot at this pot and my raise is an attempt to take control of the hand and better define his holding. If he re-raises me I think I can let it go right there.

Shillx · #15 10-28-2006, 09:25 PM

This flop is right in the happy zone for the limpers. I'd check and see what develops.

Xhad · #16 10-28-2006, 10:11 PM

Situation 1 you raise because button will probably stab with a lot of hands, and people are less likely to slowplay on this particular board, and with all the draws you wouldn't mind getting it HU considering how many cards can beat you if everyone stays in.

2 you're still likely to have the best hand but less likely to fold people with a raise (SB almost always has a draw, so raising won't protect you from that draw coming in), so you call and reevaluate on the turn.

3 there's still a good chance you're best and most of the field has folded already, so again you're calling/reevaluating

4 you almost certainly don't have the best hand, and you're only barely getting odds on a 5-outer, and pretty much all of your outs except the non-diamond 3s are seriously tainted, and there are a million redraws to dodge on the river, so I'd fold but it seems close.

Xhad · #17 10-28-2006, 10:17 PM

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Edit: OK, 3 is not that similar to one, but with only me and villain left I am thinking I have a shot at this pot and my raise is an attempt to take control of the hand and better define his holding.

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This is exactly the type of hand that doesn't want the betting lead, and exactly the type of board where bets and raises aren't necessarily going to mean that much.

Bilgefisher · #18 10-28-2006, 11:21 PM

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Edit: OK, 3 is not that similar to one, but with only me and villain left I am thinking I have a shot at this pot and my raise is an attempt to take control of the hand and better define his holding.

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This is exactly the type of hand that doesn't want the betting lead, and exactly the type of board where bets and raises aren't necessarily going to mean that much.

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You answered my question before I could ask it. Basically the big difference between 1 and 3 is position? Good response Xhad, answered quite a few questions for me.

Xhad · #19 10-29-2006, 12:01 AM

The position of the bettor, and also the fact that the main reason to raise the flop is to get it HU and in situation 3 it that will usually happen anyway.

Aaron W. · #20 10-29-2006, 12:26 AM

Here's the real hand:

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero raises, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls.

What will happen on the turn? What cards will make you bet-call? Bet-fold? Check-call? Check-fold? Bet-3Bet?