nl600 vs. 2er

[mak15]

i kind of like the flop raise, and would bet/fold the turn.

[ArturiusX]

Completely different situation and almost standard if you know he's folding everything bar a king.

But raising someone who just bet into you after you raised pre on a montone flop 642 with total air isn't a play you'd ever make, so don't kid yourself into thinking he'll ever percieve you as having air.

[Zag]

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HATE the flop raise a lot. Whats accomplished?

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Wow. I LOVE the flop raise, and I think it accomplished a lot. It took back control of the hand, it defined the opponent pretty well, and it did not, as one poster suggests, define hero's hand. If I were villain, that flop raise would make me think that hero has two big cards, and one or both are clubs. When villain calls, it makes me think he has a big club, as well, though not two of them, and possibly has hit a small pair.

If hero now checks behind on the turn, he will have confirmed the opponent's incorrect read. Now he is ready to snap off a bluff on a club-less river, or to make a bluff if the river is a club and opponent checks.

[CopTHIS]

It's a tricky flop to bluff at from villian's point of view because you get called quite often, but if villian is prepared to make bold plays from the turn onwards there is still a reasonable chance he doesn't have much at all. I prefer calling the flop, but raising isn't bad.

I'd often just check the turn to be honest.

[microbet]

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Completely different situation and almost standard if you know he's folding everything bar a king.

But raising someone who just bet into you after you raised pre on a montone flop 642 with total air isn't a play you'd ever make, so don't kid yourself into thinking he'll ever percieve you as having air.

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Maybe I am kidding myself, but that's fine, I don't want him to perceive I have air.

I absolutely raise the flop with stronger hands, including a made flush.

[ArturiusX]

I hate concepts of 'control of the hand', especially here if it even applies, because we have position which gives us control anyway since a lot of his hands would probably be some kind of draws.

Problems with raising the flop are simple. I really don't know what he's bet folding here, if he's bluffing I think a c/r would be more likely, but hey, maybe A6 or something. So why are we inflating the pot? We're making it difficult on ourselves and losing an excellent chance for him to make a bigger mistake later in the hand.

I'm finding it really difficult to explain why I much prefer a flop call, I guess I feel like opponents make so many mistakes on the turns, as do we, that we're just to vulnerable by raising.

[microbet]

That's cool.

I wasn't trying to do anything esoteric on the flop. I had been aggressive and I thought he was trying to push back a bit. I thought it was likely enough he would fold on the flop.

Let's say I checked on the flop, how do you handle the turn if checked to, or if he leads with about a pot sized bet? Bet if he checks and call if he bets? (I mean with the turn card that came.)

[bigt439]

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HATE the flop raise a lot. Whats accomplished?

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I'm not sure. If he has a worse hand, I've got more money in good. If he has a better hand, I put money in badly. I was just thinking he likely didn't have much, but probably overs and it would be good if he folded.

edit: I think there's virtually no chance he checks down, so do you think I am calling him down, check-folding, or making a move on his turn or river bet?

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he def doesnt just have non-club overs if he donked into the raiser. you could play this hand a lot of ways depending on who youre playing.

[ArturiusX]

I assume you mean call on the flop, I'd probably bet the turn if checked too, and if he PSB's it I'd make a judgement call, probably folding.

[microbet]

Yeah, meant call the flop.