Hand reading 101 - LC but not NC - Page 2

udbrky · #11 02-24-2007, 09:54 PM

If he had AA or JJ, the flop overbet push is quite puzzling.

Did you get hurt when you tripped trying to get to the call button?

Sean Fraley · #12 02-24-2007, 10:18 PM

Sorry, I missed the limp-reraise when I was reading it. These are easy to recognize at the table, but I sometimes miss them in posts. This is almost always AA or KK.

Fold.

Lordy · #13 02-24-2007, 10:25 PM

Push pre-flop or call flop.
If you really think his range is EXACTLY {AA, KK} you should fold pre-flop. You aren't getting odds for set-value.

ImprovinNewbie · #14 02-24-2007, 10:31 PM

JJ, QQ, also KK but HIGHLY unlikely, and AA... the only other hand i put him on is AJ in the hands of a donk.... i do call here. i dont like it.

ImprovinNewbie · #15 02-24-2007, 10:34 PM

i didnt notice the limp RR in the post.... that tightens the range a lot. i also think only to AA pretty much... maybe people do this with kings but ive only seen it done with AA.

Johnny Drama · #16 02-24-2007, 10:36 PM

did everyone notice that CO limped behind two limpers and then reraised? it's been my experience that this is a real hand a LOT less often than an open-limp/reraise.

I call this all day.

Sean Fraley · #17 02-24-2007, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
did everyone notice that CO limped behind two limpers and then reraised? it's been my experience that this is a real hand a LOT less often than an open-limp/reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your experience and mine appear to differ drastically. I've never seen a single limp-reraise that wasn't at least QQ, and that was only one time.

haz31 · #18 02-25-2007, 01:14 AM

fold preflop if you wont felt this on a non-ace flop

spacetime · #19 02-25-2007, 01:36 AM

I don't agree with thoughts like this. Its called gaining information and using it to determine whether or not you are ahead. I am not saying that he should fold here, I am saying that IN GENERAL the lack of an overcard to Hero's pair does not make everything fine and dandy.

Freelancer · #20 02-25-2007, 06:10 AM

ugh I'd snapcall the flop.

The assumption that every limp/reraise is AA/KK is EXTREMELY dangerous both for your development and decisions. A while back there was a thread in I believe mid stakes about limp reraises from datamined stats and what hands villain would do this with. To most people's suprise it was a mix of AA/KK and occasionally QQ but also A LOT of junk, since junk will get to showdown way less often than a big pair you would have to assume that this is junk atleast half the time (whoaa yeah seriously). Now this might not be correct at these stakes, but your hand is WAY to strong to depend so much on the general tendency of players.

If its a mistake to call with KK here its a very marginal one (based on basic math KK is going to be good most of the time EVEN against a lrr), if its a mistake to fold with KK here its a very big one...

Meh I'm fairly that some people are going to berate me for this but whatever. Preventing big mistakes is more important that preventing small ones, if you agree with me that it is close either way (I hope you do) than a call is obviously the better option (this will never be a big mistake).

Ps. Ask any random 2p2'er if its a big mistake if you never fold KK in a 3bet pot on a non-ace flop, I'd bet 99% would say its a marginal mistake at best. Now ask the if its a big mistake if you occasionally fold KK in a 3bet pot on a non-ace flop, now the answers will be A LOT more diverse.
Pss. I am often snapcalling open pushes in decent sized pots with every big pair, its amazing how often air shows up here. Also its obv. that villain had AA in this example, this means extremely little though. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]