I am no longer tipping the dealers at CAZ until.......(long)

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
Howard,

LOL, wow. A couple of those are terrible.

BTW, why do you prefer CAZ over the Fort when you live in Fountain Hills? Are the games that much better? Also, didn't you live in like Litchfield Park as of just last summer? What happened with that?

I played most of my B&M poker at CAZ and BEFORE I ever even registered here. Mostly just 3/6 and 4/8 at CAZ and I did stuff that today makes me cringe. Sitting next to a friend, showing him my cards when only I was still in the hand, being a stupid ass table captain at times, just dumb stuff I don't do today. I'm not delusional when I say I'm slightly ahead in my B&M career, but at a very small rate.

I remember a friend of mine sitting next to me made a royal flush on either the flop or turn one time, just ridiculous luck, and couldn't help but show it to me. I kept my cool, it turns out he was in a hand with a guy with kings full, huge tease because it was nearly the BB jackpot cuz the board had paired jacks. In retrospect he probably shouldn't have shown me his cards but he was so excited he couldn't help himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I hope you had a very happy birthday! Happy birthday to you.....Happy birth.....ok, that's enough.

I've been in Fountain Hills for 8 years now. You must've misunderstood me at the get-together. We should do that again sometime soon and we can do it easier in the lounge area at CAZ. I should've thought of that last time.

Anyway, the Fort only has low limits. Here's a *funny* thing. They want bigger games. They are willing to charge only $3/half-hour for 10-20 and up. There was a time they were charging something like $1/half-hour for a 15-30 mix game I played in that died out when the biggest donator got sick and couldn't play anymore. So, years ago, I mention at CAZ that we can be playing 20-40 for so much cheaper at the Fort and everybody says why bother because there is no game there and I say that's because you knuckleheads won't drive 15 minutes to save what comes out to a real lot of money at the end of the year no matter how many hours you play but they say again that there's no game there and I shut up because I realize I can get barred for that kind of talk.

Lastly, I doubt that you were as bad as most of these folks on your worst day. You're too nice.

[psandman]

I'm certainly not going to say you are out of line. But I am going to explain a little about what I see going on here.ne of the telling things I see here is this statement

[ QUOTE ]
I approached a floorperson who was sitting with a few dealers waiting for their shift to start and complained. She, and the dealers, all told me that it was no use, there was nothing they could do. I'm not making that up. So, I've been on a slow burn for a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This tells me a lot. The floor has told you there is nothing they can do.his of course from the floor is a lie. There is nothing they will do, but they could do something.

But as a dealer it is impossible to enforce these types of rules once the players learn that the floor will not do anything about it. Once a dealer calls the floor to tell them that a player has repeatedly violated a rule after being warned to stop and the floor just shrugs it off then eventually stop trying.hy becuase telling the players to stop accomplishes nothing and aggravate sthe players.

I have actually had players ridicule me because I have asked them to stop speaking chinese at the table. The floor doesn't do anything about it, so after a while you just give up.

I'm certainly not going to tell you to tip these dealers, but I will tell you that witholding tips here isn't going to solve the problem (it will save you some money though). There are two things you can do to try to solve the problem.

1) Keep complaining to the floor and the manager. If you can get them to change their attitude about the problem then at least the dealers who want to enforce the rules will have some backing.

2) SPeak up at the table. I know a lot of players don't want to sound like nits and be the bad guys. But I have found that i can get more support from the floor if I have a player complaint. I call the floor and tell them the gentlemen in seat 6 objects to the players in seat 2 and 3 speaking Chinese at during the hand, I find the floor is more likely to actually respond.

[that_pope]

Just to help you out, the other night (Sunday I believe) I was at an 8/16 table (jackpot of course) and saw a player take 2 racks to the cage...figured he was getting reds...

He came back with a purple chip ($500), and I mentioned it didn't play. He said he went to the cage with 2 racks of blue ($400) and asked for a color change, but they had no red left...so he gave them another $100 and he got a purple chip. When he said this, I looked around. Exactly ONE 20/40 game and 3 5/150 games were going on, with no 10/150 game....unless somone at blackjack had $100,000 in red chips in front of him, this guy was full of [censored]. I pushed the issue, but the dealer just sat there and believed him. On a normal day, 6-7 5(10)/150 and 3 20/40 games are going on, which would take more red chips than the 4 games listed above.

But the guy was adament that the cage was out of $5 chips....

I left a round later for a juicier 8/16 game, and told the floor, and within 8 minutes, he was brining a rack of red to the table for the guy who said we were out of red chips....I don't care, but that would wrecked any jackpot cause the guy was a [censored].....

Go Suns....F THE SPURS

[bav]

Who monitors and regulates these games? Whispering "CAZ supports collusion and refuses to enforce basic rules to protect the game's integrity" to a regulatory agency, with a nice paper trail of documented examples may help.

[Budget Boy]

Howard,

I don't blame you one bit for feeling the way you do. I also play a lot of hours of live poker in the SW (Sandia-ABQ) and nothing irritates me more that apathetic dealers/floor, considering the amount of money I pay in rake/tips in a year to sit in that seat. I would suggest that you look at this on a case by case basis though, instead of just not tipping anyone. Here is a personal example.

I'm in a big pot in a 10-20 game (this hand is 1/2 kill so its 15-30). I have an OESFD and have been putting in a lot of bets and raises. On the river its head's up, I miss my draw and fire as its the only way I can win, and could get high-carded if the other player is on a draw. The other player thinks...then finally calls. I flip my hand up immediately, the other player (very bad and very confused) nods his head and is about to muck. Guy next to him yells out "look he's only got 9-high you can't beat that?" Player is STILL trying to fold when guy next to him actually GRABS HIS ARM and says "just table your hand, he doesn't have anything." After all this convincing the guy finally tables his hand and shows 1 pair. During this whole episode the dealer is staring staight ahead like someone lobotomized her, and doesn't do or say anything. Another player and myself start yelling to the interfering player and the dealer "wtf its 1 player per hand!" she has no reaction whatsoever. I glare at her and say "I'm gonna charge you for that." It was over a $300 pot and I never tipped her again.

There are a number of dealers at my casino that do a good job, actually try to enforce the rules, and pay attention to what is going on. I have no problem tipping these people. I just as easily have no problem stiffing the dealers who are apathetic, and don't care at all about the integrity of the game. I tip these people little or nothing.

[rafiki]

to quote the legend:

" MR. WHITE
I don't tip because society says I
gotta. I tip when somebody
deserves a tip. When somebody
really puts forth an effort, they
deserve a little something extra.
But this tipping automatically,
that sh-it's for the birds. As far
as I'm concerned, they're just
doin their job.
"

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]


" As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin their job."

[/ QUOTE ]


The problem is, in this case, the dealers are not doing their jobs.

Their job is to control and run the game.

Note: Part of their job is to give me horrible bad beats. Since it is part of the job description, I do not get mad at them (ie throw cards, insult, stop tipping) for it.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Situation #1...Huge infraction


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? His buddy had already folded right? This is no big deal at all, basically nothing wrong happened at all. 2 and 3 are much worse.

-DeathDonkey

[rafiki]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


" As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin their job."

[/ QUOTE ]


The problem is, in this case, the dealers are not doing their jobs.

Their job is to control and run the game.

Note: Part of their job is to give me horrible bad beats. Since it is part of the job description, I do not get mad at them (ie throw cards, insult, stop tipping) for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I'm not disagreeing, I just thought this forum needed some Reservoir Dogs lines.

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
Who monitors and regulates these games? Whispering "CAZ supports collusion and refuses to enforce basic rules to protect the game's integrity" to a regulatory agency, with a nice paper trail of documented examples may help.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the right approach.

While I have never seen the on site gaming official at CA, I know one is on site, as that is the rules. Seek that person out and let them know. Nothing gets the card room more fired up than the gaming official questioning them. BTW, if you ask to talk to them, they have to get you in touch with them.