StudHi 3rd Street Quiz w/ Small and Med Pairs

[*TT*]

#1 - Call. Those who say fold aren't reading the board of the opponent's actions correctly, we are way ahead of our opponent's probable range of cards. But I call because the weak kicker and no redraw isnt good for the hand. Decide what to do on 4th street.

#2 Heart redraw is dead but kicker is live. I can limp, no way in hell are you stealing the antes if you raise.

#3 Pump it up!

#4 Pump it up! Unless the A is a tricky player on 4th street.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Andy B]

Why is the bring-in more than half a bet? Why why why? Do the people who come up with these structures know why there is a bring-in in the first place? It's enough to drive a guy to drink.

And whaddya know, it's Saturday.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

What was the question? Oh yeah, a lot of these are close among the various options. I'm with *TT* on the first hand. Your hand isn't that great, but the limpers probably have even worse garbage. I'd limp, probably take a free card on fourth street, and see what fifth brings. Folding wouldn't be horrible. Completing would be pointless.

With the high ante, I think hand 2 is a call, but it's close. If this were a game with aggressive players, I'd lean towards folding with a couple of big, unduplicated cards out there, but at this level I think you can limp in and see what happens. And if the game were tight, completing would be a viable option. I can't imagine there being too many tight $.25/.50 games, though.

Hand 3 is an easy completion. You likely have the best hand, and you'd like to knock out as many players as possible.

Hand 4 is a call. There are a couple of over-cards to your Tens out there, and while they probably don't have you beaten right now, either of them could hit. With the straight-flush kicker, it's tempting to raise for value, but I think it's better to take a wait-and-see approach.

To save time on the non-pair s00ted hands, if one or none of your suit is gone, you should almost always play and sometimes raise. With two gone you should lean towards folding, especially for a full bet. And with three gone you should almost always fold. Unpaired cards with no straight or flush possibilities tend to suck.

[JerBear77]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is the bring-in more than half a bet? Why why why? Do the people who come up with these structures know why there is a bring-in in the first place? It's enough to drive a guy to drink.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you care to explain this to me? Im thinking the BI is like the BB in HE as far as to initiate action.

[Andy B]

There is also an ante in stud to help stimulate action. Some casino games have only the bring-in <*groan*> and many home games have only the ante, but most casino games, including any that are played for "real" money, have both.

The purpose of the bring-in is to stimulate action. I think that a bring-in of 1/3 of the small bet is ideal, 1/4 is OK when 1/3 isn't practical (e.g., $20/40), and pretty much anything else should be avoided. The relatively small bring-in encourages action in two ways. First, it encourages limping. Second, it encourages raising (completing) as the completion represents a relatively large raise. Occasionally, someone will limp for the bring-in and then fold to a raise. You almost never see anyone limp in for one bet in LHE and then fold for one more bet. (I actually think that this represents a flaw in LHE's structure. I don't have a better suggestion, however, and I don't think it's a big problem. I need the money in any case.)

The half-bet bring-in, common in online games, tends to inhibit action. It costs more, so it discourages limping. And the first raise means less, so you have less incentive to do so.

[forhasta]

This is a great post, especially for beginners like me. I agree though that that ante is crippling. I wouldn't play in that game.

[cgrohman]

I agree. I can;t find a raise in ahnd 4 given all the players alreayd in the pot. Hand 2 is close between a fold or a call- depends how tough the opponents are behind you.

[RainierBob]

Your post, Andy, might fit well in the FAQ. It is something that's brought up from time to time.

[MRBAA]

We're talking about a low stakes game here with "typical" players.

Hand 1 is a fold. It's a classic reverse implied odds situation -- while you may well be best here, your chances of improving are slim and the other players like to call, so you probably can't take down the small pot right away.

Hand 2is an easy, easy call or raise. Note that the raise is only 40% more than the complete, so if you can thin the field it's probably well worth it. In some games, the ratio is very different, with a raise being more than double the bring in. In that structure, I'd limp. This hand is live, it has an overcard kicker, the pot is unraised, you want to play this kind of hand always in unraised pots in loose low limit games. You will get paid if you hit kings up, and sometimes even when you hit trip 7s.

Hand 3 -- raise to thin the field. However, it often won't work and you shouldn't fall in love with your semi-dead hand -- be prepared to fold on later streets if action gets heavy. However remember that many won't "believe" you have queens because one is out elsewhere, so when in doubt, call down with queens up.

Hand 4, Another one where raising or limping is okay in this structure. I'd be more likely to just call in a bigger completion game. You are likely to have the best hand but the overcards are probably going to stick around. Be sure to bet if checked to on fourth. If one of the big cards bets on fourth, you can peel. But probably you'll need to laydown unimproved if they follow up on fifth. Alot of players at low limits seem to love to dog it on third with split big pairs.