200PLO slowplay flopped nut straight + freeroll?

[FireStorm]

Repop it, get the thinking on the turn out of the equation.

[TheRempel]

When my opponents are dumb enough to checkraise the flop in a spot where they should definitely lead out with 100% of their range, I generally oblige them and just call so they can stick in half their stack on the turn.

[Bump_Bailey]

[ QUOTE ]
When my opponents are dumb enough to checkraise the flop in a spot where they should definitely lead out with 100% of their range, I generally oblige them and just call so they can stick in half their stack on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that the villain should lead out here every time? Is it the flop texture?

[TheRempel]

There's no hand he can checkraise with for which the best action (in a normal game anyway) is to do so. All of his hands fare better leading out for value or bluffs than checkraising since it creates an awkward situation on the turn, especially when his opponent will often not define his hand as the nuts by reraising when he (the opponent) feels he is ahead or chopping and just calls the flop with the nuts.

Of course if there is a really bad aggro player in late position that will bet every flop when checked to and continue when drawing slim then certainly checkraise away. 99% of the time the nut straight on a rainbow board with few redraws should be led for value against sets/worse straights and to keep people in that might call a single pot sized bet but fold to all the action when you checkraise with no equity other than a tiny amount of dead money.

[sc000t]

I really can take either line here and be happy. I've done it both ways, but for this spot I'd just repop it up here. For a solid player that c/r this board its usually a straight or something like J988 and I want to milk him a little more on the flop so by the turn I can either get his stack in if I want to and he'll have a hard time folding a blank turn with even the smallest straight or a dry 88xx even.

I'd reraise this to about $110 and look to get it in on the turn. I just think he has a hand that he won't fold so lets extract value on two streets. If he calls the flop raise to $110, then he'll call off the rest on a blank turn. So lets juice up the pot here and look to get the rest in on the turn.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
just calling here is very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Pete -

He check-raised the second round bet!

He's not going anywhere!

Or is he? ..... If I'm missing something here, it's because I don't think he'll get away. I think he's hooked!

Assuming Hero just calls, there's about $90 in the pot and Hero has $147 left with two betting rounds to go.

What is the big rush?

How can it possibly be "very wrong" to just call?

(I don't mean to pick on you, Pete. Others have your same point of view. It's just that I respect your opinion and am wondering if I am somehow overlooking something that's obvious to an experienced player like you.)

Buzz

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just calling here is very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Pete -

He check-raised the second round bet!

He's not going anywhere!

Or is he? ..... If I'm missing something here, it's because I don't think he'll get away. I think he's hooked!

Assuming Hero just calls, there's about $90 in the pot and Hero has $147 left with two betting rounds to go.

What is the big rush?

How can it possibly be "very wrong" to just call?

(I don't mean to pick on you, Pete. Others have your same point of view. It's just that I respect your opinion and am wondering if I am somehow overlooking something that's obvious to an experienced player like you.)

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little surprised that so many people think this is a call. maybe it's closer than i thought, but generally my reasoning is: i usually put the c/r here on a set or the same straight (or air, but that will prob give up on turn anyway). if he has the same straight, i'd rather just get it in now while i have a freeroll and before the action gets killed on the turn. if he has a set, i'd rather just get it in now while i'm a big favorite and before the action gets killed on the turn. plus if i call and he leads a paired board on the turn, we're in a guessing game where I can make a big mistake one way or the other. also, i think some of you are overestimating the action that you're going to get from the raw end of the straight if he has it. there's a good chance that either an action killing card will come on the turn anyway, or that he slows down anyway. i think it's rare that he stacks off with the understraight, no matter how you play it.

[ChuckyB]

[ QUOTE ]
just calling here is very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a rainbow board with the nuts that can't be counterfeited by any non-board-pairing card + top pair + BDFD, how could this possibly be "very wrong"?

If Hero was OOP I'd be more likely to say 're-raise pot'. Since he's in position, I don't mind calling here at all, as long as it will all go in on the turn. Only 8/45 cards are going to scare Hero. If villain will fire the turn...I think there's a better chance to get paid by calling.

[OrrLives]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm a little surprised that so many people think this is a call. maybe it's closer than i thought, but generally my reasoning is: i usually put the c/r here on a set or the same straight (or air, but that will prob give up on turn anyway). if he has the same straight, i'd rather just get it in now while i have a freeroll and before the action gets killed on the turn. if he has a set, i'd rather just get it in now while i'm a big favorite and before the action gets killed on the turn. plus if i call and he leads a paired board on the turn, we're in a guessing game where I can make a big mistake one way or the other. also, i think some of you are overestimating the action that you're going to get from the raw end of the straight if he has it. there's a good chance that either an action killing card will come on the turn anyway, or that he slows down anyway. i think it's rare that he stacks off with the understraight, no matter how you play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you pete. In general, if I have the current nuts and any decent redraw to a better hand I will try to go allin asap.

A check raise here is almost always QJXX or J7XX, with or without paired side cards.

I'm not worried about being up against a full house draw and waiting until the turn to get my money in safe. But I am worried about a scare card coming off on the turn that might frighten my opponent with a bare QJXX or J7XX. If the board pairs or if a J/Q comes out, it may be impossible to stack off villain.

[Big Dave D]

Backgammon folk call it losing your market. Allin.

gl

bdd