2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce

[Schneids]

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Turn is 8 I bet, she raises, I 3 bet, she quickly 4 bets...plan?

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Call and check-raise the river. She has you pegged for KJ, and a young aggro-punk, she is monkey-tilting AK.

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Checkraising the river is way too much action IMO.

I'd call down and hate doing so.

[mike l.]

"I'd call down and hate doing so."

so just put her on KK and stop right there?

[Smarty]

This may appear obvious, but this hand really strikes me as just KK. Calling down seems correct even though you hate doing it and will lose a lot. I feel bad about doing it, and even worse when a 6 or 8 comes and I lose even more bets. The only other hand that seems remotely possible is 88, but there are 3 combos of KK vs. 1 of 88.

[Joe Tall]

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Checkraising the river is way too much action IMO.

I'd call down and hate doing so.

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These two statements don't match, Mike. You can fold to a 3-bet on the river as she's just not bluff 4-betting and bluff 3-betting river. The type of player that DD described is overplaying AK as she has DD on a lesser K.

[Schneids]

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Checkraising the river is way too much action IMO.

I'd call down and hate doing so.

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These two statements don't match, Mike. You can fold to a 3-bet on the river as she's just not bluff 4-betting and bluff 3-betting river. The type of player that DD described is overplaying AK as she has DD on a lesser K.

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I don't like making folds in big pots for one bet. You're seriously suggesting putting in 6BBs and folding for a 7th (I know I just had that bluff 4bet thread -- don't call me a hypocrite :[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img].

Anyway, the bigger point is that once she 4 bets the turn, in my opinion the likelihood she has a set or even kings up increases a LOT. She still might have AA or AK, hence I'm calling down, but, I don't think she has it anywhere close to often enough to make checkraising the river a good play.

[wrschultz]

Is it ever good to bet/call the river instead of c/r'ing like Joe Tall advocated? I take this line a lot in this type of situation in low limit games and it may be terrible, but I thought I'd just throw it out there.

[mike l.]

fwiw my initial response was to call the turn and then donk-fold safe rivers (no A, K, or 3). to me it sounded like she was free showdowning with AA.

[andyfox]

She would really check behind here on the river with A-A?

[mike l.]

"She would really"

no one knows what she would really do with what. not chris, not me, probably not even her if that makes sense. just from experience i know ive seen people get backed into a corner with AA on the turn like this and they like to get the last bet in and then by the time the river comes they realise theyve put in too many bets and they check. that's why i like the line i stated.

[stinkypete]

i don't see how anything but calling down could be correct if she "might be tilted"