Tricky spot for me

[Man of Means]

[ QUOTE ]
No one cold called preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to be technical, SB "Semi-coldcalled" the preflop raise. Good players don't often do this and when they do they usually have mid pocket pairs (99-66) or little suited broadways (e.g. KTs, QJs). But if he's frustrated he may have unsuited broadway or smaller suited connectors. If he's being tricky he may have a big pocket pair or AK and is lying in wait.

[sean c]

Matt,

Checking the turn here is pretty results oriented IMO. It seemed like a pretty clear value bet to me. Not that i don't think checking is an alternative line now but at the time it never crossed my mind. I guess in hindsite i could never put SB on a hand range at any point during the hand even after the check/raise. I still think i see a set, straight or weak flush much more often than i see a hand that i was actually ahead of on the turn(K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x or some sort of semi bluff). I think as usual Cold Cash's reply to this thread is pretty good and maybe i made a fold i shouldn't have. It might be closer than i thought and thats why i posted the hand. Your link is pretty good a clearly something to think about.


What did you decide to do for V day? We need to know so we make sure you don't screw up [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
He said if you don't know what you would do if you were check-raised on the turn, just check it through and call a river bet. I think this might be one of those perfect moments, especially since a good player just cold-called preflop and called your flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking this turn behind is terrible. Not that I'm sure I agree with ILP's advice, in the linked hand the flop came A66 and the poster got c/r'd on the flop with QQ. This isn't even close to the same situation.

Not only are there an a$$load of hands that a fishmax Villan will play like this preflop and on the flop that we aren't behind on the turn but that will call us down, making another bet correct, there are a smaller a$$load of hands that will c/r the turn in an effort to take it down, making a fold incorrect.

Ugh. Call/call.

[Str8Fish]

ha thanks sean... Lately, I've just been trying to find positions in my game where I question what I've thought this entire time and I look at it from different angles. In this spot, your good opponents range is so vague that I don't know if we're ahead or behind. If it's a good player that we're up against, typically the villain doesn't peel the flop lightly unless he/she has either a strong draw or pot odds for a weaker draw or a made hand and is looking for more value on the turn. I just think that although it may be a correct value-bet against certain players, we don't have the certainty in our opponent's hand against a good player to bet this for value. Against a fish, yep eassssy valuebet. Against a maniac, again very easy raise and call-down. Against a TAG/smart player... a raise isn't good out of this guy and is the last thing you want to see... and also leads to a very difficult decision.

I dunno... I'm probably arguing verrry thin EV strategy here. Probably not even really worth anything.

For Valentines, decided to get her a card and cook her dinner or go out to eat. Right now we're both unemployed as I'm finishing up my Ph.D. and she's already done, so we don't have a ton of money to throw around for gifts (which is obviously to my advantage). I'm also looking into a day-trip somewhere in PA here. I think it'd be fun to get out of the house and away from writing this thesis for a bit.

[sean c]

Matt,

Cooking dinner sounds good. The more over the top you try to go at this late stage in the game the higher risk of complete failure. I would nix going out for dinner. At this point and time your only shot at a reservation would probably be before 5 or after 9:30 or so. Anyplace decent is most likely booked. The day trip sounds good but is pretty high risk. Get to planning noob your running out of time!

[NIX]

I agree that checking behind on the turn is bad. I would think a straight isn't in the Villain's range on the turn, but sets and some made flushes are as well as hands with a big club in them. Making top pair on the turn should have us ahead of probable ranges and we can get value now rather than letting Villain check/fold a hand like A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Jx on the river.

After getting check/raised, I agree with calling the turn and a non-club river. There are still a ton of K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]X and KxX[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in Villain's range along with perhaps a Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Jx type hand.

[Absolution]

He's also evaluating a 5/10 3-handed game on Stars, which is a different game than what we are talking about. A major difference is that in sharpie's example there are not many hands that will hurt him if he gives a free card. He's basically in a WA/WB situation where he's WA more often than he is WB and he's not going to get any action unless he's beat or the guy tries to take the pot away from him. Checking in that hand might induce an aggressive 5/10 player to stab at it on the turn (and will also make him value bet it.) There is no way to know where he is in the hand and he probably won't extract value unless he's beat so he induces. If I'm the opponent in that hand I'm going to get pretty suspicious though if he checks behind on that flop after raising preflop. I'm likely just to bet for value when I have a hand that beats him and play perfect poker as he calls down hoping I'm bluffing.